Gallup poll: Catholics more unorthodox than Protestants

BeliefNet ^ | April 3, 2009 | Rod Dreher

[Alex Murphy]

This is a distressing new Gallup poll. It shows that churchgoing Catholics are far more likely to approve of moral behavior (sex between unmarried people, homosexuality, etc.) that their church deems immoral than are churchgoing Protestants.

This is a conundrum to me, one I thought about a lot when I was a Catholic, and troubled over. Why is it that Catholics have a Pope and a Magisterium -- a clear teaching authority -- as well as a complex, coherent and profoundly intellectual moral theology ... and yet these things, which ought to give it a tremendous advantage in maintaining the obedience of its flock, avail the Catholic Church little? It shouldn't be that way, logically, but it is in practice.

Lee Podles, an orthodox Catholic, has some thoughts.

[I wish I didn't have to say this, but I do: this is not an anti-Catholic post, but rather intended to spark discussion on various reasons why this poll found the things it did. As someone who would like to raise my children to believe in what my faith teaches, I'd like to know what works, and what doesn't. Anybody who tries to derail the thread by making specious claims of anti-Catholicism will find their posts unpublished. So don't even start.]

[fr_freak]

A church that performs same-sex “marriage” isn’t even Christian, fr_freak, let alone Protestant, no matter what husk of a building they’re occupying, or what name they claim.

I agree with you completely on this. Unfortunately, those "churches" are still claiming to be Christian. Hopefully, all actual Christians in their congregations have wised up and left by now.

Your Magisterium doesn’t seem especially effective with the “do whatever they want” crowd, either.

Well, considering that the Magisterium doesn't send armed troops to force people to follow teachings (lately, anyway), if people choose to ignore the doctrine, there isn't a lot they can do. But the advantage that the Catholic Church has is that they can point to the set teachings and say that this is what you all should be following. Protestants have no such delineated beliefs, which leaves people vulnerable to multiple interpretations from congregation to congregation and minister to minister. As a result, an Episcopal church can claim to be following scripture and all the members can do is leave, whereas any Catholic local church which attempted to endorse homosexuality would have its clergy disciplined, either by removal, excommunication or whatever.

[Twink]

So anyone posting an umpopular opinion will be deleted? Good to know.

[fr_freak]

Interesting. Instead of your fear about this devolving into anti-Catholic thread, it seems it is the Protestants that are being attacked.

Relax. Since the previous poster made a snarky comment about indulgences, I thought I'd make a point. I actually find it ridiculous that people engage in interdenominational finger pointing at all. All true Christians are allies. Period. However, Catholic bashing is a daily sport around here, so I do what I can.

[Earthdweller]

"Gambling is encouraged in the Catholic church...Drinking alcohol is encouraged in the Catholic church.

No it's not..it's just tolerated, just like it is in most Protestant Churches. Only difference is that Catholics do it in the open rather than just at home on football nights with the buds.

Next propaganda myth....

[Salvation]

**All true Christians are allies. Period. **

I’ll bumpt that thought any day! Thanks!

[Twink]

It’s all about Free Will. We’re called to obey but it’s not easy.

[reaganaut]

Well, I will never bash Catholics. While I am not Catholic, nor have I ever been, I did attend at Catholic school as a child and my research area is Medieval Holy Women (Catholic Mystics). I have a great love and respect for the Catholic church. And I agree true Christians ARE allies.

The world is becoming increasingly dark and as long as we agree on the essentials (Person, work and nature of Jesus Christ) then we need to stick together.

[Earthdweller]

Thank you Salv....I was just about to leave before it got nasty. I hate family arguments. :)

[Twink]

“The RCC needs to put more emphasis on the primcy of God’s word rather than the primacy of Rome’s word.”

Hmmm. I disagree since Rome’s word as you say is God’s Word.

[RegulatorCountry]

whereas any Catholic local church which attempted to endorse homosexuality would have its clergy disciplined, either by removal, excommunication or whatever.

"Endorse?" Slippery word, that. The Catholic priesthood has been widely perceived, rightly or wrongly and for a very long time, as a haven for homosexuals. That has borne fruit in molestations of boys within the church. To my knowledge, and I welcome your correcting me if I'm wrong, these priests, homosexuals preying on teenagers and therefore not pedophiles, were quietly shipped off to another parish.

So, you see, there are advantages to a decentralized approach as well. Are there Protestant churches that would have allowed such a thing to continue, quietly relocated the offenders, and reached monetary settlements with the victims? I don't doubt that there are. But, by far and away, such offenders would be called out, publicly shamed and immediately ejected from just about any Protestant denomination, aside from the liberal, adrift and sadly Godless few.

[fr_freak]

The vast majority of Protestant Churches do not accept this, as the poll indicates. A very few false ones do.

The poll actually indicates the beliefs of individuals, not churches as a whole. I have no doubt that most Protestant churches reject the whole homo thing, and I'm glad about that. I was merely making a point to a previous poster that people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

[fr_freak]

The Catholic priesthood has been widely perceived, rightly or wrongly and for a very long time, as a haven for homosexuals. That has borne fruit in molestations of boys within the church.

"Haven" is far too strong a word. The decision was made some time back to allow those with homosexual tendencies to be priests, so long as they did not act on them. That was a big mistake in my opinion, and hopefully that is being corrected. However, that is a far cry from being a haven for homosexuals.

Also, the number of cases of pedophile or otherwise predatory priests is not actually that large, given the number of Catholics in the world, and the sheer number of priests. I would not be surprised if similar cases in the Protestant denominations were in equal ratios. The news media, which has its own agenda as we all know, publicized the hell out of every case they could find in the Catholic Church, giving the impression that there was some kind of epidemic. I don't excuse the lack of appropriate response of the Church in some of those cases, however. All should have been jailed, defrocked, or both.

[presently no screen name]

But I do think that the Catholic church does not discipline its members effectively, if at all.

I believe it's because they need the numbers - if they offend anyone they may leave. And that's totally against God's Word - we are to please God and obey His Word first and foremost and not be man pleaders. Teaching them that correction is not condemnation might be a good start.

[annelizly]

it doesn’t seem odd to me. seems like most of the catholics i’v known throughout my life were the biggest sinners i knew.

I usually figured it was because they always had an easy way out....just go to confession and say a few “hail marys” and your good with god.

the rest of us don’t feel we get off that easy.

[Earthdweller]

Why can't you go after the homosexuals?

The Church is committing suicide and making excuses for it as they go along.

I remember when the Catholic church excommunicated people for all kinds of stuff... It's gone too far in the other direction of "tolerance". I seriously think you have been infiltrated in some of the top positions. ND is a prime example.

Don't fret...all the old Protestant Universities have been taken over as well...the difference is they don't have to call them Christian schools anymore...they just cut them loose and start new ones.

[presently no screen name]

I believe the poster was referring to bingo and Las Vegas night - that’s how I understood it anyway.

[fr_freak]

The world is becoming increasingly dark and as long as we agree on the essentials (Person, work and nature of Jesus Christ) then we need to stick together.

Absolutely. And I'll even throw the Mormons in there, too. They may not technically be Christian in the classic sense, but they still believe in the teachings of Christ and they want the same thing that all true Christians want. Look what they did for California in our time of need - provided valuable support for Prop 8.

[Alex Murphy]

Also, the number of cases of pedophile or otherwise predatory priests is not actually that large, given the number of Catholics in the world, and the sheer number of priests. I would not be surprised if similar cases in the Protestant denominations were in equal ratios.

...Popcorn and soda standing by....

[fr_freak]

I remember when the Catholic church excommunicated people for all kinds of stuff... It's gone too far in the other direction of "tolerance". I seriously think you have been infiltrated in some of the top positions. ND is a prime example.

I agree that the Church has gotten too tolerant. The new pope seems to be reversing the trend, albeit slowly. You'll notice, though, that with ND situation, there is a rather large outcry by Catholics, including some high profile bishops, so all is not lost. Don't be fooled into hoping for a collapse of the Catholic Church, though. When the Church goes, its the end for everyone.

[reaganaut]

And I’ll even throw the Mormons in there, too. They may not technically be Christian in the classic sense

---

Now THERE I will disagree with you. Having been an active Mormon for several years, they are no where near agreement on the person work and nature of Jesus Christ to true Christians.

While, I can (and do) work with them politically, I will never accept them as Christians, I know too much about their doctrines and history.

BTW, a big part of their message is how all other Christian churches are corrupt and evil. I can provide quotes if you would like.