Posted on 04/04/2009 3:29:51 PM PDT by Alex Murphy
This is a distressing new Gallup poll. It shows that churchgoing Catholics are far more likely to approve of moral behavior (sex between unmarried people, homosexuality, etc.) that their church deems immoral than are churchgoing Protestants.
This is a conundrum to me, one I thought about a lot when I was a Catholic, and troubled over. Why is it that Catholics have a Pope and a Magisterium -- a clear teaching authority -- as well as a complex, coherent and profoundly intellectual moral theology ... and yet these things, which ought to give it a tremendous advantage in maintaining the obedience of its flock, avail the Catholic Church little? It shouldn't be that way, logically, but it is in practice.
Lee Podles, an orthodox Catholic, has some thoughts.
[I wish I didn't have to say this, but I do: this is not an anti-Catholic post, but rather intended to spark discussion on various reasons why this poll found the things it did. As someone who would like to raise my children to believe in what my faith teaches, I'd like to know what works, and what doesn't. Anybody who tries to derail the thread by making specious claims of anti-Catholicism will find their posts unpublished. So don't even start.]
What, exactly, is an orthodox Protestant? There are so damn many sects.
Besides, isn’t the gist of Protestantism that you read the Bible, have a chat with Jesus, and make up your own mind about everything? How hard is it to stick to that?
Duh.
Again, duh.
As we’ve seen with a number of Protestant churches lately, some ordained yahoo can easily and willfully misinterpret the Bible to fit whatever agenda they have, such as promoting homosexuality, and might manage to convince plenty of others in that church to go along with it
To be fair, there are a great number of non-catholic (protestant) ministers and pastors who interpret the Bible correctly and honestly, without a magisterium. For these ministers, the mechanism to condemn false teachings is the Bible.
Protestants are raised to take pride in themselves, sometimes to a ridiculous level and Catholics are raise to shame themselves too much.
Protestants are taught that there is no need to be a martyr because there was only one and Catholics are busy trying make their children into martyrs through shame and this leaves them open to the first people who come along who tell them it's too much of a burden.
Also, a person who is excessively shamed is highly open to all the false doctrine, self pride and criticism, that is being tossed about by the left. Commies know how it works and they take advantage of it.
Protestants automatically assume they are right (sorry friends...I'm getting to it) but leave room for questions, so they are less venerable to false attacks from our human demons. This is where they get the "stubbornness" "pride-full" label.
The other obstacle....a living martyr does not protect themselves well. In other words, the shield is not up on a street level. They are taken advantage of far too often and from what I have seen will destroy themselves trying to win others.
I hope all understand...these are just generalizations and I'm well aware that there are many, many people who don't fit these descriptions.
A fair number of high-profile Catholics would seem to fit into this category, then. Maybe they can buy an indulgence. I hear they're coming back.
I am a Protestant. In the pro-life movement I have worked with many very moral Catholics. But I do think that the Catholic church does not discipline its members effectively, if at all.
Witness the large numbers of Catholic legislators advocating abortion, voting for abortion, etc., yet kept on as members in good standing in the Catholic church.
Witness Catholic universities inviting rabid pro-abortion and other immoral speakers for commencement, etc. Not only are the speakers allowed, the inviters aren’t disciplined.
Witness the fact that as a new Christian I wandered into several Catholic churches and partook of mass with no understanding of what on earth I was doing. No one questioned me, asked me where I was from, anything. I was just served.
In short, there is little if any church discipline in the Catholic church. They have some high moral standards but do not hold anyone to them.
In my Protestant church, no one takes communion without being screened by the elders. No one is publicly supporting abortion in any way. The only speakers we have are in compliance with church standards.
A church that performs same-sex “marriage” isn’t even Christian, fr_freak, let alone Protestant, no matter what husk of a building they’re occupying, or what name they claim.
Your Magisterium doesn’t seem especially effective with the “do whatever they want” crowd, either.
Better yet, they can just join a Protestant church that allows them to do whatever they want, like marrying someone of the same sex. They could even be ministers!
Interesting. Instead of your fear about this devolving into anti-Catholic thread, it seems it is the Protestants that are being attacked.
Doesn’t really bother me, one way or the other. I’ve got a fairly thick skin. There actually are a few denominations that would do as fr-freak describes. But, being the wild-eyed Protestant that I am, I deem them not Christian, based upon the clear Word Of God, let alone Protestant. And, I needed no oversight to reach this conclusion. Interesting how that works, isn’t it?
Enemies of the Catholic Church speak vicious lies about Her.
<<<”Witness the large numbers of Catholic legislators advocating abortion, voting for abortion, etc., yet kept on as members in good standing in the Catholic church.”>>>
Actually, these members of Congress are excommunicated until they confess their sins. They are to not receive the Eucharist but in doing so are creating another sin. I would doubt they are in good standing. Of course sin is personal and such things are not publicly broadcast by the Church.
<<<”Witness Catholic universities inviting rabid pro-abortion and other immoral speakers for commencement, etc. Not only are the speakers allowed, the inviters aren’t disciplined.”>>>
You will find that many of the Catholic Universities have become secular institutions. They have been secularized for many, many years now. You will also notice that many of their Presidents and Chancellors are from the 1960s era when their educations were influenced by liberals in the Church.
<<<”Witness the fact that as a new Christian I wandered into several Catholic churches and partook of mass with no understanding of what on earth I was doing. No one questioned me, asked me where I was from, anything. I was just served.”>>>
The Mass is not a social gathering. Those I know who were interested in the Mass asked the priest to discuss the Mass. There normally are greeters at the entrance and I have met several who come to the Church and ask for help. We must remember that the Mass is solemn and I believe most of the attendees minds are on the sacrifice.
<<<”In short, there is little if any church discipline in the Catholic church. They have some high moral standards but do not hold anyone to them.”>>>
Not correct. The Church has strict discipline but unfortunately, the Church is made of sinners with free will.
Whether a person obeys these discipline is another story.
<<<”In my Protestant church, no one takes communion without being screened by the elders. No one is publicly supporting abortion in any way. The only speakers we have are in compliance with church standards.”>>>
I am director of our pro life group and associated with the Pennsylvania Pro Life Federation. I unhappy to say that several Ministers of our local Protestant Churches are woman and they support abortion. I have to say none of these pastors and their parishioners have partnered with our priests in our prayers for the unborn.
The Lord be with you!
The vast majority of Protestant Churches do not accept this, as the poll indicates. A very few false ones do.
Protestants are not regulated under one group of men like Catholics. This is were a lot of misunderstanding comes about between Protestants and Catholics in the US.
No, the attack is not on Protestants, but rather on misguided and poisonous false traditions of men.
My concerns about the RCC are due to the fact that so many of my relatives belong to said Church.
It was a false accusation directed toward all Protestants as a whole. If this is to be allowed then don't ask others not to attack Catholics as a whole.
Good night.
Good catch.
I agree whole heartedly.
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