Posted on 03/23/2009 10:27:54 AM PDT by fproy2222
I am tired of how some anti-Mormons here at FR, and other places, mis-use the history and teachings of my Church.
This was posted:::::::::
“”””” President John Taylor stated: "Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p.167); “””””
Here is the part of the article not posted for you and as you read it, you will find that it does not say the things about my church that is implued by leaving out large parts of the text.
Please note, the address is to us, the LDS people, from one of the church leaders at the time, telling us that we are not doing what we should and that we must do better.
In no way is President Taylor saying what the original post says he is saying..
Notice how the “…” jump the first part of the post into another sentence and into another thought.
The information is taken out of context and turned into an untruth.
I have put “{{}}” around the parts posted to make it easer to see the misuse of this document.
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We have first to learn submission to the will of God ourselves, through various trials, persecutions, and the development of our weaknesses and imperfections, and thereby learn to appreciate the goodness and blessings that flow from him. We must see that we ourselves first learn obedience, and then teach others. But how can we teach others a lesson which we have not learned ourselves?
There is not nation now that acknowledges that hand of God; there is not a king, potentate, nor ruler that acknowledges his jurisdiction. We talk about {{ Christianity }}, but it {{ is a perfect pack of nonsense }}. Men talk about civilization; but I do not want to say much about that, for I have seen enough of it. Myself and hundreds of the Elders around me have seen its pomp, parade, and glory; and what is it? It is a sounding brass and a tinkling symbol; it is as corrupt as hell; {{ and the Devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work that the Christianity of the nineteenth century. }}
(Journal of Discourses, 26 vols. [London: Latter-day Saints' Book Depot, 1854-1886], 6: 167.)
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If signs were enough, the Egyptians would have followed the Hebrews.
If wisdom were enough, the great Greek philosophers would have found God.
And Moses called unto all Israel, and said unto them, Ye have seen all that the LORD did before your eyes in the land of Egypt unto Pharaoh, and unto all his servants, and unto all his land; The great temptations which thine eyes have seen, the signs, and those great miracles: Yet the LORD hath not given you an heart to perceive, and eyes to see, and ears to hear, unto this day. – Deuteronomy 29:2-4
For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
Where [is] the wise? where [is] the scribe? where [is] the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men. - I Corinthians 1:18-25
Too LATE!!
He posted just below this one.
"We do not indorse the teachings of any so-called Mormons or Latter Day Saints, which are in conflict with the gospel of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, as taught in the New Testament and the Book of Mormon. They have departed in a great measure from the faith of the Church of Christ as it was first established, by heeding revelations given through Joseph Smith, who, after being called of God to translate his sacred word--the Book of Mormon--drifted into many errors and gave many revelations to introduce doctrines, ordinances and offices in the church, which are in conflict with Christ's teachings."
-- David Whitmer (an elder in the Church of Christ), 1887
Today, there are as many as 100 organizations claiming to be a part of the Latter Day Saint movement, most centered in Utah or Missouri. Most regard their own group, however small, to be the only legitimate Christian church. Most of these organizations are very small, but overall, but the second largest denomination, the Community of Christ, reports over 200,000 members.
Just a sampling...........
--MormonDude(My EYES!! my EYES!)
There is HOPE! ;^)
Matt 17:21
Can you explain why the ONE man - ONE wife thing in the bible AND in the Book of Mormon did not get obeyed by Joseph Smith and the following leaders of Mormonism until the United States Government threatened them?
Did you see my post http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2212763/posts?page=340#340
There is an important part missing as to why the LDS understand as they do, and if the Trinity dismiss this than the mainstream will always arrive to conclusion they always have.
There was a war in Heaven!
Why was there a war in Heaven?
Why did Lucifer fall?
What was Jesus offer?
What was Heavenly Father plan?
What was Jesus mission?
I know the story but with my dylexic and dry eyes it is hard for me to use my weakest tool of communitcation but I will try.
Rev 12
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
The understanding is this in pre mortal life in the Heavenly Council Heavenly Father had a plan to redeem His childen and asked who would go down and save His Children?
Lucifer made an offer but his plan was more like Communism where he would control adn take away the free agency of men.
Jesus also made an offer where he would do the Will of Heavenly Father and we would still have our free agency to choose who we would follow,
Josh. 24: 15
15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the Lord, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.
Here is an excerpt of the continuation of the war on earth
Alma 30 http://scriptures.lds.org/en/alma/30/8#8
6 But it came to pass in the *latter end of the seventeenth year, there came a man into the land of Zarahemla, and he was Anti-Christ, for he began to preach unto the people against the prophecies which had been spoken by the prophets, concerning the coming of Christ.
7 Now there was no law against a man’s belief; for it was strictly contrary to the commands of God that there should be a law which should bring men on to unequal grounds.
8 For thus saith the scripture: Choose ye this day, whom ye will serve.
9 Now if a man desired to serve God, it was his privilege; or rather, if he believed in God it was his privilege to serve him; but if he did not believe in him there was no law to punish him.
10 But if he murdered he was punished unto death; and if he robbed he was also punished; and if he stole he was also punished; and if he committed adultery he was also punished; yea, for all this wickedness they were punished.
11 For there was a law that men should be judged according to their crimes. Nevertheless, there was no law against a man’s belief; therefore, a man was punished only for the crimes which he had done; therefore all men were on equal grounds.
12 And this Anti-Christ, whose name was Korihor, (and the law could have no hold upon him) began to preach unto the people that there should be no Christ. And after this manner did he preach, saying:
D&C 105 http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/105/35#35
32 That the kingdoms of this world may be constrained to acknowledge that the kingdom of Zion is in very deed the kingdom of our God and his Christ; therefore, let us become subject unto her laws.
33 Verily I say unto you, it is expedient in me that the first elders of my church should receive their endowment from on high in my house, which I have commanded to be built unto my name in the land of Kirtland.
34 And let those commandments which I have given concerning Zion and her law be executed and fulfilled, after her redemption.
35 There has been a day of calling, but the time has come for a day of choosing; and let those be chosen that are worthy.
36 And it shall be manifest unto my servant, by the voice of the Spirit, those that are chosen; and they shall be sanctified;
37 And inasmuch as they follow the counsel which they receive, they shall have power after many days to accomplish all things pertaining to Zion.
38 And again I say unto you, sue for peace, not only to the people that have smitten you, but also to all people;
39 And lift up an ensign of peace, and make a proclamation of peace unto the ends of the earth;
40 And make proposals for peace unto those who have smitten you, according to the voice of the Spirit which is in you, and all things shall work together for your good.
41 Therefore, be faithful; and behold, and lo, I am with you even unto the end. Even so. Amen.
Again it is about Choose Ye This Day Whom Ye Will Serve
D&C 127 http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/127/2#2
An epistle from Joseph Smith the Prophet to the Latter-day Saints at Nauvoo, Illinois, containing directions on baptism for the dead; dated at Nauvoo, September 1, 1842. HC 5: 142–144.
1–4, Joseph Smith glories in persecution and tribulation; 5–12, Records must be kept relative to baptisms for the dead.
1 Forasmuch as the Lord has revealed unto me that my enemies, both in Missouri and this State, were again in the pursuit of me; and inasmuch as they pursue me without a cause, and have not the least shadow or coloring of justice or right on their side in the getting up of their prosecutions against me; and inasmuch as their pretensions are all founded in falsehood of the blackest dye, I have thought it expedient and wisdom in me to leave the place for a short season, for my own safety and the safety of this people. I would say to all those with whom I have business, that I have left my affairs with agents and clerks who will transact all business in a prompt and proper manner, and will see that all my debts are canceled in due time, by turning out property, or otherwise, as the case may require, or as the circumstances may admit of. When I learn that the storm is fully blown over, then I will return to you again.
2 And as for the perils which I am called to pass through, they seem but a small thing to me, as the envy and wrath of man have been my common lot all the days of my life; and for what cause it seems mysterious, unless I was ordained from before the foundation of the world for some good end, or bad, as you may choose to call it. Judge ye for yourselves. God knoweth all these things, whether it be good or bad. But nevertheless, deep water is what I am wont to swim in. It all has become a second nature to me; and I feel, like Paul, to glory in tribulation; for to this day has the God of my fathers delivered me out of them all, and will deliver me from henceforth; for behold, and lo, I shall triumph over all my enemies, for the Lord God hath spoken it.
3 Let all the saints rejoice, therefore, and be exceedingly glad; for Israel’s God is their God, and he will mete out a just recompense of reward upon the heads of all their oppressors.
4 And again, verily thus saith the Lord: Let the work of my temple, and all the works which I have appointed unto you, be continued on and not cease; and let your diligence, and your perseverance, and patience, and your works be redoubled, and you shall in nowise lose your reward, saith the Lord of Hosts. And if they persecute you, so persecuted they the prophets and righteous men that were before you. For all this there is a reward in heaven.
5 And again, I give unto you a word in relation to the baptism for your dead.
6 Verily, thus saith the Lord unto you concerning your dead: When any of you are baptized for your dead, let there be a recorder, and let him be eye-witness of your baptisms; let him hear with his ears, that he may testify of a truth, saith the Lord;
7 That in all your recordings it may be recorded in heaven; whatsoever you bind on earth, may be bound in heaven; whatsoever you loose on earth, may be loosed in heaven;
8 For I am about to restore many things to the earth, pertaining to the priesthood, saith the Lord of Hosts.
9 And again, let all the records be had in order, that they may be put in the archives of my holy temple, to be held in remembrance from generation to generation, saith the Lord of Hosts.
10 I will say to all the saints, that I desired, with exceedingly great desire, to have addressed them from the stand on the subject of baptism for the dead, on the following Sabbath. But inasmuch as it is out of my power to do so, I will write the word of the Lord from time to time, on that subject, and send it to you by mail, as well as many other things.
11 I now close my letter for the present, for the want of more time; for the enemy is on the alert, and as the Savior said, the prince of this world cometh, but he hath nothing in me.
12 Behold, my prayer to God is that you all may be saved. And I subscribe myself your servant in the Lord, prophet and seer of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
Joseph Smith.
D&C 88 http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/88/74-80#74
74 And I give unto you, who are the first laborers in this last kingdom, a commandment that you assemble yourselves together, and organize yourselves, and prepare yourselves, and sanctify yourselves; yea, purify your hearts, and cleanse your hands and your feet before me, that I may make you clean;
75 That I may testify unto your Father, and your God, and my God, that you are clean from the blood of this wicked generation; that I may fulfil this promise, this great and last promise, which I have made unto you, when I will.
76 Also, I give unto you a commandment that ye shall continue in prayer and fasting from this time forth.
77 And I give unto you a commandment that you shall teach one another the doctrine of the kingdom.
78 Teach ye diligently and my grace shall attend you, that you may be instructed more perfectly in theory, in principle, in doctrine, in the law of the gospel, in all things that pertain unto the kingdom of God, that are expedient for you to understand;
79 Of things both in heaven and in the earth, and under the earth; things which have been, things which are, things which must shortly come to pass; things which are at home, things which are abroad; the wars and the perplexities of the nations, and the judgments which are on the land; and a knowledge also of countries and of kingdoms—
80 That ye may be prepared in all things when I shall send you again to magnify the calling whereunto I have called you, and the mission with which I have commissioned you.
2 Nephi 24 http://scriptures.lds.org/en/2_ne/24/12#12
Israel shall be gathered and shall enjoy millennial rest—Lucifer cast out of heaven for rebellion—Israel shall triumph over Babylon (the world)—Compare Isaiah 14. Between 559 and 545 B.C.
This record of the people of Israel was taken from Laben by Nephi which testifies of the Two the covenants one of Judah and one of Joseph
Ezek. 37: 16, 19 http://scriptures.lds.org/en/ezek/37/16,19#16
16 Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions:
• • •
19 Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.
D&C 78 http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/76/71-80#71
71 And again, we saw the terrestrial world, and behold and lo, these are they who are of the terrestrial, whose glory differs from that of the church of the Firstborn who have received the fulness of the Father, even as that of the moon differs from the sun in the firmament.
72 Behold, these are they who died without law;
73 And also they who are the spirits of men kept in prison, whom the Son visited, and preached the gospel unto them, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh;
74 Who received not the testimony of Jesus in the flesh, but afterwards received it.
75 These are they who are honorable men of the earth, who were blinded by the craftiness of men.
76 These are they who receive of his glory, but not of his fulness.
77 These are they who receive of the presence of the Son, but not of the fulness of the Father.
78 Wherefore, they are bodies terrestrial, and not bodies celestial, and differ in glory as the moon differs from the sun.
79 These are they who are not valiant in the testimony of Jesus; wherefore, they obtain not the crown over the kingdom of our God.
80 And now this is the end of the vision which we saw of the terrestrial, that the Lord commanded us to write while we were yet in the Spirit.
2 Nephi 33 http://scriptures.lds.org/en/2_ne/33/6#6
3 But I, Nephi, have written what I have written, and I esteem it as of great worth, and especially unto my people. For I pray continually for them by day, and mine eyes water my pillow by night, because of them; and I cry unto my God in faith, and I know that he will hear my cry.
4 And I know that the Lord God will consecrate my prayers for the gain of my people. And the words which I have written in weakness will be made strong unto them; for it persuadeth them to do good; it maketh known unto them of their fathers; and it speaketh of Jesus, and persuadeth them to believe in him, and to endure to the end, which is life eternal.
5 And it speaketh harshly against sin, according to the plainness of the truth; wherefore, no man will be angry at the words which I have written save he shall be of the spirit of the devil.
6 I glory in plainness; I glory in truth; I glory in my Jesus, for he hath redeemed my soul from hell.
7 I have charity for my people, and great faith in Christ that I shall meet many souls spotless at his judgment-seat.
8 I have charity for the Jew—I say Jew, because I mean them from whence I came.
9 I also have charity for the Gentiles. But behold, for none of these can I hope except they shall be reconciled unto Christ, and enter into the narrow gate, and walk in the strait path which leads to life, and continue in the path until the end of the day of probation.
10 And now, my beloved brethren, and also Jew, and all ye ends of the earth, hearken unto these words and believe in Christ; and if ye believe not in these words believe in Christ. And if ye shall believe in Christ ye will believe in these words, for they are the words of Christ, and he hath given them unto me; and they teach all men that they should do good.
11 And if they are not the words of Christ, judge ye—for Christ will show unto you, with power and great glory, that they are his words, at the last day; and you and I shall stand face to face before his bar; and ye shall know that I have been commanded of him to write these things, notwithstanding my weakness.
12 And I pray the Father in the name of Christ that many of us, if not all, may be saved in his kingdom at that great and last day.
13 And now, my beloved brethren, all those who are of the house of Israel, and all ye ends of the earth, I speak unto you as the voice of one crying from the dust: Farewell until that great day shall come.
14 And you that will not partake of the goodness of God, and respect the words of the Jews, and also my words, and the words which shall proceed forth out of the mouth of the Lamb of God, behold, I bid you an everlasting farewell, for these words shall condemn you at the last day.
15 For what I seal on earth, shall be brought against you at the judgment bar; for thus hath the Lord commanded me, and I must obey. Amen.
Jesus Redeemer http://scriptures.lds.org/en/search?search=Jesus+Redeemer&do=Search
Glory to Jesus
John 11: 4, 40
4 When Jesus heard that, he said, This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God might be glorified thereby.
Acts 7: 55
55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,
The fall
D&C 76 http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/76/25-29#25
25 And this we saw also, and bear record, that an angel of God who was in authority in the presence of God, who rebelled against the Only Begotten Son whom the Father loved and who was in the bosom of the Father, was thrust down from the presence of God and the Son,
26 And was called Perdition, for the heavens wept over him—he was Lucifer, a son of the morning.
27 And we beheld, and lo, he is fallen! is fallen, even a son of the morning!
28 And while we were yet in the Spirit, the Lord commanded us that we should write the vision; for we beheld Satan, that old serpent, even the devil, who rebelled against God, and sought to take the kingdom of our God and his Christ—
29 Wherefore, he maketh war with the saints of God, and encompasseth them round about.
The war continues today on earth...
D&C 20
75 It is expedient that the church meet together often to partake of bread and wine in the remembrance of the Lord Jesus;
76 And the elder or priest shall administer it; and after this manner shall he administer it—he shall kneel with the church and call upon the Father in solemn prayer, saying:
77 O God, the Eternal Father, we ask thee in the name of thy Son, Jesus Christ, to bless and sanctify this bread to the souls of all those who partake of it, that they may eat in remembrance of the body of thy Son, and witness unto thee, O God, the Eternal Father, that they are willing to take upon them the name of thy Son, and always remember him and keep his commandments which he has given them; that they may always have his Spirit to be with them. Amen.
78 The manner of administering the wine—he shall take the cup also, and say:
79 O God, the Eternal Father, we ask thee in the name of thy Son, Jesus Christ, to bless and sanctify this wine to the souls of all those who drink of it, that they may do it in remembrance of the blood of thy Son, which was shed for them; that they may witness unto thee, O God, the Eternal Father, that they do always remember him, that they may have his Spirit to be with them. Amen.
80 Any member of the church of Christ transgressing, or being overtaken in a fault, shall be dealt with as the scriptures direct.
81 It shall be the duty of the several churches, composing the church of Christ, to send one or more of their teachers to attend the several conferences held by the elders of the church,
82 With a list of the names of the several members uniting themselves with the church since the last conference; or send by the hand of some priest; so that a regular list of all the names of the whole church may be kept in a book by one of the elders, whomsoever the other elders shall appoint from time to time;
83 And also, if any have been expelled from the church, so that their names may be blotted out of the general church record of names.
84 All members removing from the church where they reside, if going to a church where they are not known, may take a letter certifying that they are regular members and in good standing, which certificate may be signed by any elder or priest if the member receiving the letter is personally acquainted with the elder or priest, or it may be signed by the teachers or deacons of the church.
The LDS just feel that Christiandom does not have the whole story and therefore that is why we always seem to talk pass each others.
We beleive becasue this knowledge was brough forth is why there will be endless trashing of the Prophet Joseph Smith, to prevent many from taking seriouly if there focus is on bashing Smith anything else will be discredit and many in the earth will never pray or ponder to really know.
The sad part is that both faith Love the Lord Jesus Christ one see the Father as real as Jesus and the other understands the Father and Son in spirit form only When the Son has over come death and receive a Glorified resurrected body.
I am thankful to the Holy Spirit which teaches all things to man who sincerely desires to receive,
Mystery of God http://scriptures.lds.org/en/search?search=Mystery+of+God&do=Search
Be of Good Cheer!
I gave you things that were important to me and there is much more but through the Love of the Lord when one part takes to earnestly study the things of the Lord just fill ones soul with so much joy my being with in just radiates because all that I have known and felt so much is no more a forgotten dream.
For me I see clearly the movements in the earth as the children of the Lord struggle with the powers on earth that want to ensare the Lord Children.
We should not be contending at this time when there are bigger issues on earth
Mosiah 2 http://scriptures.lds.org/en/mosiah/2/40#40
32 But, O my people, beware lest there shall arise contentions among you, and ye list to obey the evil spirit, which was spoken of by my father Mosiah.
33 For behold, there is a wo pronounced upon him who listeth to obey that spirit; for if he listeth to obey him, and remaineth and dieth in his sins, the same drinketh damnation to his own soul; for he receiveth for his wages an everlasting punishment, having transgressed the law of God contrary to his own knowledge.
34 I say unto you, that there are not any among you, except it be your little children that have not been taught concerning these things, but what knoweth that ye are eternally indebted to your heavenly Father, to render to him all that you have and are; and also have been taught concerning the records which contain the prophecies which have been spoken by the holy prophets, even down to the time our father, Lehi, left Jerusalem;
35 And also, all that has been spoken by our fathers until now. And behold, also, they spake that which was commanded them of the Lord; therefore, they are just and true.
36 And now, I say unto you, my brethren, that after ye have known and have been taught all these things, if ye should transgress and go contrary to that which has been spoken, that ye do withdraw yourselves from the Spirit of the Lord, that it may have no place in you to guide you in wisdom’s paths that ye may be blessed, prospered, and preserved—
37 I say unto you, that the man that doeth this, the same cometh out in open rebellion against God; therefore he listeth to obey the evil spirit, and becometh an enemy to all righteousness; therefore, the Lord has no place in him, for he dwelleth not in unholy temples.
38 Therefore if that man repenteth not, and remaineth and dieth an enemy to God, the demands of divine justice do awaken his immortal soul to a lively sense of his own guilt, which doth cause him to shrink from the presence of the Lord, and doth fill his breast with guilt, and pain, and anguish, which is like an unquenchable fire, whose flame ascendeth up forever and ever.
39 And now I say unto you, that mercy hath no claim on that man; therefore his final doom is to endure a never-ending torment.
40 O, all ye old men, and also ye young men, and you little children who can understand my words, for I have spoken plainly unto you that ye might understand, I pray that ye should awake to a remembrance of the awful situation of those that have fallen into transgression.
41 And moreover, I would desire that ye should consider on the blessed and happy state of those that keep the commandments of God. For behold, they are blessed in all things, both temporal and spiritual; and if they hold out faithful to the end they are received into heaven, that thereby they may dwell with God in a state of never-ending happiness. O remember, remember that these things are true; for the Lord God hath spoken it.
Ether 8 http://scriptures.lds.org/en/ether/8/24#24
23 Wherefore, O ye Gentiles, it is wisdom in God that these things should be shown unto you, that thereby ye may repent of your sins, and suffer not that these murderous combinations shall get above you, which are built up to get power and gain—and the work, yea, even the work of destruction come upon you, yea, even the sword of the justice of the Eternal God shall fall upon you, to your overthrow and destruction if ye shall suffer these things to be.
24 Wherefore, the Lord commandeth you, when ye shall see these things come among you that ye shall awake to a sense of your awful situation, because of this secret combination which shall be among you; or wo be unto it, because of the blood of them who have been slain; for they cry from the dust for vengeance upon it, and also upon those who built it up.
25 For it cometh to pass that whoso buildeth it up seeketh to overthrow the freedom of all lands, nations, and countries; and it bringeth to pass the destruction of all people, for it is built up by the devil, who is the father of all lies; even that same liar who beguiled our first parents, yea, even that same liar who hath caused man to commit murder from the beginning; who hath hardened the hearts of men that they have murdered the prophets, and stoned them, and cast them out from the beginning.
26 Wherefore, I, Moroni, am commanded to write these things that evil may be done away, and that the time may come that Satan may have no power upon the hearts of the children of men, but that they may be persuaded to do good continually, that they may come unto the fountain of all righteousness and be saved.
It is our faith and let there be no divsion among those who Love the Lord.
When there is no contention the Lord is able to work among us!
You might as well use The lolcat Bible Translation Project as a reference. It has as much factual content as the BOM.
Sorry: but CONTEND we must; for the Book commands us:
Jude 1:3
Dear friends, although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt I had to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to the saints.
ONCE and FOR ALL delievered: NOT some Satanically inspired drivel from an ignorant 14 yo farmboy.
C’mon MormonDude, don’t be shy, tell me how you REALLY feel.
That does indeed happen a lot in the Body of Christ where one Christian looks into the revelation of God in Scripture and truly sees something a bit differently than another Christian looking into the same revelation truly sees.
The Apostles themselves were quite different – John was not like Peter who was not like Paul who was not like James who was not doubting Thomas. And they each had a different perspective, as if all were looking into the same diamond but from different facets. James was focused on the fruits of the Spirit, the works. Peter was focused on the body of Christ, the church. John was focused on the Person of Christ, loving Him. Paul was focused on the Faith, the doctrines. And so on. But it is the same diamond (Scripture) and the same Light, God.
Your subsequent post asks that there be no contention between LDS and non-LDS. Whereas love must be unconditional (Matt 5-7) and we are to be gentle with all men (2 Timothy 2:24-26) the contention will not end, because the difference between LDS and Christianity goes to Who Christ IS as I tried to explain in post 135.
The LDS extra-Scriptural revelations from latter day prophets declares that Christ is a creature from the spiritual realm, not the Creator of “all that there is” which includes both physical and spiritual. Indeed, it has the Father as a creature as well, self-contained individual identities in an infinite genealogy of spiritual creatures. Neither Father nor Son are “the” God or “the” Creator.
We Christians ask man and spirit “Who is Christ?” If the answer denies Him, the rejection is swift and severe. And understandably, hurtful.
Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, [The Son] of David. - Matthew 22:42
Moreover, once we know Who HE IS, worshipping Him as a creature and not The Creator is perilous:
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.– Romans 1:20-32
On one point though we do agree, i.e. that we Christians do not have the whole story. But that is according to God’s will for us.
Most importantly, I do not receive Enoch as Scripture. Scriptures – the words of God – are brought alive in me by the indwelling Spirit.
This and other ancient manuscripts are illuminating but they are not living.
And Enoch, whose true antiquity was only recently confirmed by its discovery in the Dead Sea Scrolls, offers a backstory mostly consistent with Scripture whereas LDS embraces a counter-Scriptural latter day revelation. Enoch of course is quoted directly in Jude and indirectly elsewhere in Scripture.
More specifically, it expounds on Genesis 6 – the errant angels and their offspring, the demons, the purpose of the Flood, the Elect One (Jesus), the final judgments and that those errant angels are imprisoned by God until the end of days. It begins by speaking a blessing to the reader who will be here for that time, the end of days. Because it is written for them, some see it as the book referred to by Daniel.
The current status of the errant angels are confirmed in the words of God:
For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast [them] down to hell, and delivered [them] into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; - 2 Peter 2:4
Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. - John 8:44
For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth [will let], until he be taken out of the way. - 2 Th 2:7
Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. - James 4:7
And there came a voice out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him. – Luke 9:35
And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book. – Revelation 22:19
So be it Alamo-Girl
To Whom It May Concern.
Hear the prophecy of the Prophet Joseph Smith:
“No unhallowed hand can stop the work from progressing; persecutions may rage, mobs may combine, armies may assemble, calumny may defame, but the truth of God will go forth boldly, nobly, and independent, till it has penetrated every continent, visited every clime, swept every country, and sounded in every ear, till the purposes of God shall be accomplished, and the Great Jehovah shall say the work is done.” (HC, 4:540.)
Christian denominations the world over have prayed for centuries for the kingdom of God to come. We earnestly and publicly declare: that day is now here!
To Latter-day Saints the world over, we say: Let not your hearts be troubled. Keep the commandments of God. Follow the counsel of his living prophet, taking care not to exceed the counsel with your own private views. Teach your children to walk uprightly before the Lord. Pray in your homes morning and evening. Pray for civil magistrates and leaders even when you do not agree with them. Pray for the leaders of the Church. Pray, as you have been counseled, that the doors of nations of the world will be opened to the preaching of the gospel. Obey the laws of your country; rebel not against civil authority. Do your duty as citizens. “Do not yield to the bad, but always oppose it with good.” (Virgil.)
To all who have allegiance to the kingdom of God, we say: “Seek ye … first the kingdom of God.” (Matt. 6:33.) “Arise and shine forth, that thy light may be a standard for the nations; And that the gathering together upon the land of Zion, and upon her stakes, may be for a defense, and for a refuge from the storm, and from wrath when it shall be poured out without mixture upon the whole earth.” (D&C 115:5–6.)
Yes, “Call upon the Lord, that his kingdom may go forth upon the earth, that the inhabitants thereof may receive it, and be prepared for the days to come, in the which the Son of Man shall come down in heaven, clothed in the brightness of his glory, to meet the kingdom of God which is set up on the earth.
“Wherefore, may the kingdom of God go forth, that the kingdom of heaven may come.” (D&C 65:5–6.)
I bear humble witness that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the restored kingdom of God on earth today. Its message and blessings are for all of our Father’s children. It is the truth, to which I bear grateful testimony in the sacred name of Jesus Christ. Amen.
Ezra Taft Benson, “‘May the Kingdom of God Go Forth’,” Ensign, May 1978, 32
And, we are supposed to believe all of the following to be the truth?????
Robert J. Woodford, ?Book of Mormon Personalities Known by Joseph Smith,? Ensign, Aug 1978, 12
Whenever the family of Joseph Smith, Sr., saw their father feel for the ?specs? he carried in his vest pocket they knew it was time for the evening devotional; by custom, each day in their home ended with song, prayer, and Bible reading.
1 Father Smith conducted, read from the Bible, and prayed. However, shortly after the initial visits of Moroni to the young Prophet Joseph in September 1823, these family gatherings took on, according to the Prophet?s mother, a singular aspect. She wrote:
?From this time forth, Joseph continued to receive instructions from the Lord, and we continued to get the children together every evening, for the purpose of listening while he gave us a relation of the same. I presume our family presented an aspect as singular as any that ever lived upon the face of the earth?all seated in a circle, father, mother, sons, and daughters, and giving the most profound attention to a boy, eighteen years of age. ?
?During our evening conversations, Joseph would occasionally give us some of the most amusing recitals that could be imagined. He would describe the ancient inhabitants of this continent, their dress, mode of traveling, and the animals upon which they rode; their cities, their buildings, with every particular; their mode of warfare; and also their religious worship. This he would do with as much ease, seemingly, as if he had spent his whole life with them.? 2
These detailed descriptions were given during the four years between Moroni?s first appearance and the time that Joseph was allowed to take the gold plates. Where did his information come from? Unfortunately, all his history records is:
?I went at the end of each year, and at each time I found the same messenger there, and received instruction and intelligence from him at each of our interviews, respecting what the Lord was going to do, and how and in what manner His kingdom was to be conducted in the last days.? (History of the Church, 1:16.)
In later life as well, he seldom elaborated on the events of those days. (See History of the Church, 1:220.) One rare exception appears in his letter to John Wentworth:
?I was also informed concerning the aboriginal inhabitants of this country, and shown who they were, and from whence they came; a brief sketch of their origin, progress, civilization, laws, governments, of their righteousness and iniquity, and the blessings of God being finally withdrawn from them as a people was made known unto me: I was also told where there was deposited some plates on which were engraven an abridgement of the records of the ancient prophets that had existed on this continent. The angel appeared to me three times the same night and unfolded the same things. After having received many visits from the angels of God unfolding the majesty, and glory of the events that should transpire in the last days, on the morning of the 22nd of September a.d. 1827, the angel of the Lord delivered the records into my hands.? 3
Thus, Moroni revealed the initial information to the Prophet Joseph, but many angels revealed additional things to him before he received the plates. (See Journal of Discourses, 14:140.) Orson Pratt recalled in later years that these angels were Book of Mormon personalities to whom Joseph spoke face to face. (See Journal of Discourses, 13:66.) Elder Pratt also said they came to instruct Joseph concerning the work he was to perform, and that Moroni gave him ?much instruction.? 4
Others among Joseph Smith?s close associates add intriguing details. Wilford Woodruff said that Joseph was taught by ?angels from heaven, by the voice of God, and by the inspiration and power of the Holy Ghost.? (Journal of Discourses, 16:35.) Orson Spencer wrote how ?at his touch the ancient prophets spring into life.? 5
Naturally, Moroni, who held the keys of the restoration of the Book of Mormon, was most prominent during this time of preparation. (See D&C 27:5) In at least twenty-two visits, he worked with the young prophet, appearing three times during the night of September 21?22, 1823, once the following day while Joseph was on his way back to the house from the field, later the same day at the Hill Cumorah when Joseph first saw the plates, three times more as Joseph returned to the hill on 22 September 1824, 1825, and 1826, and once during the summer of 1827. His father had sent Joseph on business to Manchester and he returned exhausted, very late at night, explaining:
?As I passed by the hill of Cumorah, where the plates are, the angel met me, and said that I had not been engaged enough in the work of the Lord; that the time had come for the record to be brought forth; and that I must be up and doing, and set myself about the things which God had commanded me to do.? 6
The tenth visit occurred on 22 September 1827 when Joseph received the plates. During the next summer, the angel took the plates and the Urim and Thummim from the Prophet ?in consequence of my having wearied the Lord in asking for the privilege of letting Martin Harris take the writings, which he lost by transgression.? (History of the Church, 1:21?22.)
The messenger subsequently returned (the twelfth visit) to bring the Urim and Thummin, by which Joseph Smith received section 3, which chastizes him for his negligence. The angel took the Urim and Thummin again, but later returned both the plates and the Urim and Thummin so that the work of translation could continue. (History of the Church, 1:23.) According to Lucy Mack Smith, this fourteenth visit occurred on 22 September 1828. 7
David Whitmer, in 1878, told Joseph F. Smith and Orson Pratt a story that includes three more visits, the fifteenth through seventeenth. He was traveling with Oliver Cowdery and Joseph Smith to Fayette, to finish the translation when ?a very pleasant, nice-looking old man suddenly appeared by the side of our wagon and saluted us with, ?good morning, it is very warm,? at the same time wiping his face or forehead with his hand. We returned the salutation, and, by a sign from Joseph, I invited him to ride if he was going our way. But he said very pleasantly, ?No, I am going to Cumorah.? This name was something new to me, I did not know what Cumorah meant. We all gazed at him and at each other, and as I looked around enquiringly of Joseph, the old man instantly disappeared, so that I did not see him again.
?Joseph F. Smith: Did you notice his appearance?
?D. Whitmer: I should think I did. He was, I should think, about five feet eight or nine inches tall and heavy set, about such a man as James Vancleave there, but heavier; his face was as large; he was dressed in a suit of brown woolen clothes, his hair and beard were white, like Brother Pratt?s, but his beard was not so heavy. I also remember that he had on his back a sort of knapsack with something in, shaped like a book. It was the messenger who had the plates, who had taken them from Joseph just prior to our starting from Harmony. Soon after our arrival home, I saw something which led me to the belief that the plates were placed or concealed in my father?s barn. I frankly asked Joseph if my supposition was right, and he told me it was.? 8
After the translation was complete, Joseph returned the plates to the angel who later showed them to Joseph, Oliver Cowdery, and David Whitmer, and, later the same day, returned to show them to Martin Harris and Joseph Smith.
The last two recorded visits occurred when Joseph received the plates from the angel and displayed them to the eight witnesses, then gave them back. Twenty-two known visits!
In addition to Moroni, the Savior himself, whose advent among the Nephites is central in the book, appeared to Joseph in the First Vision, at the time section 76 was given, and in the Kirtland Temple. (History of the Church, 1:5?7, D&C 76:19?24; D&C 110:1?10.)
In addition to these visits, early chroniclers record other visits of the Savior. For example, Zebedee Coltrin, speaking to the School of the Prophets of the Salt Lake Stake?which included President John Taylor and other general authorities?said that the Savior had appeared during a meeting two or three weeks after the organization of the original School of the Prophets in Kirtland. He passed through the room without speaking, and Joseph Smith identified the holy visitor: ?That is Jesus, the Son of God, our elder brother.? 9
Several other Book of Mormon personalities came in relationship to the book?s publication. Parley P. Pratt, for one, said:
?Through that young man and the ministration of holy angels to him, that book came forth to the world.? (Journal of Discourses, 9:212.)
Thus, Joseph Smith was apparently aided by the ministering of angels who had been Nephites during mortality.
Elder George Q. Cannon named two of these angels as, probably, Alma and Nephi. (Journal of Discourses, 13:47.) In a later address, Elder Cannon said Joseph was visited constantly by angels, including Moroni and the heads of various dispensations, that Joseph Smith?s mind ?might be fully saturated with a knowledge of the things of God, and that he might comprehend the great and holy calling that God had bestowed upon him.? (Journal of Discourses, 23:362.)
?He learned by communication from the heavens, from time to time, of the great events that should transpire in the latter days. He understood things that were past, and comprehended the various dispensations and the designs of those dispensations. He not only had the principles developed, but he was conversant with the parties who officiated as the leading men of those dispensations, and from a number of them he received authority and keys and priesthood and power for the carrying out of the great purposes of the Lord in the last days, who were sent and commissioned specially by the Almighty to confer upon him those keys and this authority.? (Journal of Discourses, 20:174?75.)
Elder John Taylor also identified ?Mormon, Moroni, Nephi, and others of the ancient Prophets who formerly lived on this Continent? as visitors. (Journal of Discourses, 17:374.) Speaking at Ephraim, Utah, in 1879, Elder Taylor said the Nephite twelve disciples also came to Joseph.
?The principles which he had, placed him in communication with the Lord, and not only with the Lord, but with the ancient apostles and prophets; such men, for instance, as Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Noah, Adam, Seth, Enoch, and Jesus and the Father, and the apostles that lived on this continent as well as those who lived on the Asiatic continent. He seemed to be as familiar with these people as we are one with another.? (Journal of Discourses, 21:94.)
In a later talk at the Fourteenth Ward in Salt Lake City, Elder Taylor added:
?The Angel Moroni came to him and revealed to him the Book of Mormon. ? And then came Nephi, one of the ancient prophets, that had lived upon this continent, who had an interest in the welfare of the people that he had lived amongst in those days. ?
?Again who more likely than Mormon and Nephi, and some of those prophets who had ministered to the people upon this continent, under the influence of the same Gospel, to operate again as its representatives?? (Journal of Discourses, 21:161, 163.)
Elder Orson Pratt, in a personal letter to John Christensen of Brigham City, testified:
?The prophet often received visits from Nephi, Moroni, Peter, James, John (the beloved), John (the Baptist), Elijah, Moses, the three Nephites, etc. etc.? 10
Let us make no mistake. Joseph Smith?s prophetic mission and the translation of the Book of Mormon were events for which righteous beings had waited and prayed for centuries. The unseen world was close during those crucial events. Those visits of instruction and inspiration to the young Prophet, spoken of with sacred reticence by himself and his colleagues thereafter, show him to be a seer second to none in this dispensation. The words of William Taylor, brother to President John Taylor, pay a fitting tribute to this great gift of the Prophet:
?He seemed to be just as familiar with the Spirit World, and as well acquainted with the other side, as he was here.? 11
[illustration] Moroni Delivering the Gold Plates to Joseph Smith, Kenneth Riley, 1968, 35? x 39?, oil, Church Historical Department.
2. Lucy Mack Smith, Biographical Sketches of Joseph Smith the Prophet, first ed. (Liverpool: Published for Orson Pratt by S. W. Richards, 1853), pp. 84?85.
4. Journal of Discourses, 15:185; ?Early Church History,? The Historical Record 5 (January 1886): 2.
5. Orson Spencer, Letters Exhibiting the Most Prominent Doctrines of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, sixth ed. (Salt Lake City, George Q. Cannon & Sons, 1891), p. 27.
9. Minutes of the School of the Prophets, Salt Lake Stake, 3 Oct. 1883, Archives of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Salt Lake City, p. 59.
10. Orson Pratt to John Christensen, 11 Mar. 1876, Archives of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Salt Lake City.
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