HOW SOME ANTI-MORMONS MIS USE THE TRUTH. (OPEN)

I am tired of how some anti-Mormons here at FR, and other places, mis-use the history and teachings of my Church.

“”””” President John Taylor stated: "Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p.167); “””””

Here is the part of the article not posted for you and as you read it, you will find that it does not say the things about my church that is implued by leaving out large parts of the text.

Please note, the address is to us, the LDS people, from one of the church leaders at the time, telling us that we are not doing what we should and that we must do better.

Notice how the “…” jump the first part of the post into another sentence and into another thought.

I have put “{{}}” around the parts posted to make it easer to see the misuse of this document.

We have first to learn submission to the will of God ourselves, through various trials, persecutions, and the development of our weaknesses and imperfections, and thereby learn to appreciate the goodness and blessings that flow from him. We must see that we ourselves first learn obedience, and then teach others. But how can we teach others a lesson which we have not learned ourselves?

There is not nation now that acknowledges that hand of God; there is not a king, potentate, nor ruler that acknowledges his jurisdiction. We talk about {{ Christianity }}, but it {{ is a perfect pack of nonsense }}. Men talk about civilization; but I do not want to say much about that, for I have seen enough of it. Myself and hundreds of the Elders around me have seen its pomp, parade, and glory; and what is it? It is a sounding brass and a tinkling symbol; it is as corrupt as hell; {{ and the Devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work that the Christianity of the nineteenth century. }}

(Journal of Discourses, 26 vols. [London: Latter-day Saints' Book Depot, 1854-1886], 6: 167.)

What point are you making here? It went over my head.

The original did NOT have verses numbered...

Try THIS:

THE SECOND BOOK OF NEPHI

CHAPTER 5

The Nephites separate themselves from the Lamanites, keep the law of Moses, and build a temple—Because of their unbelief, the Lamanites are cursed, receive a skin of blackness, and become a scourge unto the Nephites. Between 588 and 559 B.C.

Behold, it came to pass that I, Nephi, did cry much unto the Lord my God, because of the anger of my brethren. But behold, their anger did increase against me, insomuch that they did seek to take away my life. Yea, they did murmur against me, saying: Our younger brother thinks to rule over us; and we have had much trial because of him; wherefore, now let us slay him, that we may not be afflicted more because of his words. For behold, we will not have him to be our ruler; for it belongs unto us, who are the elder brethren, to rule over this people. Now I do not write upon these plates all the words which they murmured against me. But it sufficeth me to say, that they did seek to take away my life. And it came to pass that the Lord did warn me, that I, Nephi, should depart from them and flee into the wilderness, and all those who would go with me.

Wherefore, it came to pass that I, Nephi, did take my family, and also Zoram and his family, and Sam, mine elder brother and his family, and Jacob and Joseph, my younger brethren, and also my sisters, and all those who would go with me. And all those who would go with me were those who believed in the warnings and the revelations of God; wherefore, they did hearken unto my words. And we did take our tents and whatsoever things were possible for us, and did journey in the wilderness for the space of many days. And after we had journeyed for the space of many days we did pitch our tents. And my people would that we should call the name of the place Nephi; wherefore, we did call it Nephi. And all those who were with me did take upon them to call themselves the people of Nephi. And we did observe to keep the judgments, and the statutes, and the commandments of the Lord in all things, according to the law of Moses. And the Lord was with us; and we did prosper exceedingly; for we did sow seed, and we did reap again in abundance. And we began to raise flocks, and herds, and animals of every kind. And I, Nephi, had also brought the records which were engraven upon the plates of brass; and also the ball, or compass, which was prepared for my father by the hand of the Lord, according to that which is written. And it came to pass that we began to prosper exceedingly, and to multiply in the land. And I, Nephi, did take the sword of Laban, and after the manner of it did make many swords, lest by any means the people who were now called Lamanites should come upon us and destroy us; for I knew their hatred towards me and my children and those who were called my people. And I did teach my people to build buildings, and to work in all manner of wood, and of iron, and of copper, and of brass, and of steel, and of gold, and of silver, and of precious ores, which were in great abundance. And I, Nephi, did build a temple; and I did construct it after the manner of the temple of Solomon save it were not built of so many precious things; for they were not to be found upon the land, wherefore, it could not be built like unto Solomon’s temple. But the manner of the construction was like unto the temple of Solomon; and the workmanship thereof was exceedingly fine. And it came to pass that I, Nephi, did cause my people to be industrious, and to labor with their hands. And it came to pass that they would that I should be their king. But I, Nephi, was desirous that they should have no king; nevertheless, I did for them according to that which was in my power. And behold, the words of the Lord had been fulfilled unto my brethren, which he spake concerning them, that I should be their ruler and their teacher. Wherefore, I had been their ruler and their teacher, according to the commandments of the Lord, until the time they sought to take away my life.

Wherefore, the word of the Lord was fulfilled which he spake unto me, saying that: Inasmuch as they will not hearken unto thy words they shall be cut off from the presence of the Lord. And behold, they were cut off from his presence. And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them. And thus saith the Lord God: I will cause that they shall be loathsome unto thy people, save they shall repent of their iniquities. And cursed shall be the seed of him that mixeth with their seed; for they shall be cursed even with the same cursing. And the Lord spake it, and it was done. And because of their cursing which was upon them they did become an idle people, full of mischief and subtlety, and did seek in the wilderness for beasts of prey. And the Lord God said unto me: They shall be a scourge unto thy seed, to astir them up in remembrance of me; and inasmuch as they will not remember me, and hearken unto my words, they shall scourge them even unto destruction. And it came to pass that I, Nephi, did consecrate Jacob and Joseph, that they should be priests and teachers over the land of my people. And it came to pass that we lived after the manner of happiness. *And thirty years had passed away from the time we left Jerusalem. And I, Nephi, had kept the records upon my plates, which I had made, of my people thus far. And it came to pass that the Lord God said unto me: Make other plates; and thou shalt engraven many things upon them which are good in my sight, for the profit of thy people.

Wherefore, I, Nephi, to be obedient to the commandments of the Lord, went and made these plates upon which I have engraven these things. And I engraved that which is pleasing unto God. And if my people are pleased with the things of God they will be pleased with mine engravings which are upon these plates. And if my people desire to know the more particular part of the history of my people they must search mine other plates. And it sufficeth me to say that *forty years had passed away, and we had already had wars and contentions with our brethren.

* verse 28 (569 B.C.); Verse 34 (559 B.C.).

Because of their unbelief, the Lamanites are cursed, receive a skin of blackness, and become a scourge unto the Nephites.

Interesting concept...

The first man that committed the odious crime of killing one of his brethren will be cursed the longest of any one of the children of Adam. Cain slew his brother. Cain might have been killed, and that would have put a termination to that line of human beings.

This was not to be, and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the flat nose and black skin. Trace mankind down to after the flood, and then another curse is pronounced upon the same race--that they should be the 'servant of servants', and they will be, until that curse is removed."

Brigham Young-President and second 'Prophet' of the Mormon Church, 1844-1877- Extract from Journal of Discourses.

Let's just see about this CURSE:

Genesis 4:9-15
9. Then the LORD said to Cain, "Where is your brother Abel?" "I don't know," he replied. "Am I my brother's keeper?"
10. The LORD said, "What have you done? Listen! Your brother's blood cries out to me from the ground.
11. Now you are under a curse and driven from the ground, which opened its mouth to receive your brother's blood from your hand.
12. When you work the ground, it will no longer yield its crops for you. You will be a restless wanderer on the earth."
13. Cain said to the LORD, "My punishment is more than I can bear.
14. Today you are driving me from the land, and I will be hidden from your presence; I will be a restless wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me."
15. But the LORD said to him, "Not so ; if anyone kills Cain, he will suffer vengeance seven times over." Then the LORD put a mark on Cain so that no one who found him would kill him.

If Cain was not born with this characteristic - and he was not -- then in the ordinary course of nature, his descendents would not inherit it.
While God could certainly change Cain's genetic make-up if He willed the 'mark' to be inherited, where in the text does it suggest He wished to do so?

The text says NOTHING about folks killing Cain's OFFSPRING - just HIM.

Even if the 'mark of Cain' were imagined to be heritable versus 'a tattoo', where does the text even hint that the 'mark' is 'black complexion', versus 'a birthmark shaped like the State of Utah'!

Here is where Cain's descendants went:

Genesis 4:16-26
16. So Cain went out from the LORD's presence and lived in the land of Nod, east of Eden.
17. Cain lay with his wife, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Enoch. Cain was then building a city, and he named it after his son Enoch.
18. To Enoch was born Irad, and Irad was the father of Mehujael, and Mehujael was the father of Methushael, and Methushael was the father of Lamech.
19. Lamech married two women, one named Adah and the other Zillah.
20. Adah gave birth to Jabal; he was the father of those who live in tents and raise livestock.
21. His brother's name was Jubal; he was the father of all who play the harp and flute.
22. Zillah also had a son, Tubal-Cain, who forged all kinds of tools out of bronze and iron. Tubal-Cain's sister was Naamah.
23. Lamech said to his wives, "Adah and Zillah, listen to me; wives of Lamech, hear my words. I have killed a man for wounding me, a young man for injuring me.
24. If Cain is avenged seven times, then Lamech seventy-seven times."
25. Adam lay with his wife again, and she gave birth to a son and named him Seth, saying, "God has granted me another child in place of Abel, since Cain killed him."
26. Seth also had a son, and he named him Enosh. At that time men began to call on the name of the LORD.

Genesis 5
1. This is the written account of Adam's line. When God created man, he made him in the likeness of God.
2. He created them male and female and blessed them. And when they were created, he called them "man. "
3. When Adam had lived 130 years, he had a son in his own likeness, in his own image; and he named him Seth.
4. After Seth was born, Adam lived 800 years and had other sons and daughters.
5. Altogether, Adam lived 930 years, and then he died.
6. When Seth had lived 105 years, he became the father of Enosh.
7. And after he became the father of Enosh, Seth lived 807 years and had other sons and daughters.
8. Altogether, Seth lived 912 years, and then he died.
9. When Enosh had lived 90 years, he became the father of Kenan.
10. And after he became the father of Kenan, Enosh lived 815 years and had other sons and daughters.
11. Altogether, Enosh lived 905 years, and then he died.
12. When Kenan had lived 70 years, he became the father of Mahalalel.
13. And after he became the father of Mahalalel, Kenan lived 840 years and had other sons and daughters.
14. Altogether, Kenan lived 910 years, and then he died.
15. When Mahalalel had lived 65 years, he became the father of Jared.
16. And after he became the father of Jared, Mahalalel lived 830 years and had other sons and daughters.
17. Altogether, Mahalalel lived 895 years, and then he died.
18. When Jared had lived 162 years, he became the father of Enoch.
19. And after he became the father of Enoch, Jared lived 800 years and had other sons and daughters.
20. Altogether, Jared lived 962 years, and then he died.
21. When Enoch had lived 65 years, he became the father of Methuselah.
22. And after he became the father of Methuselah, Enoch walked with God 300 years and had other sons and daughters.
23. Altogether, Enoch lived 365 years.
24. Enoch walked with God; then he was no more, because God took him away.
25. When Methuselah had lived 187 years, he became the father of Lamech.
26. And after he became the father of Lamech, Methuselah lived 782 years and had other sons and daughters.
27. Altogether, Methuselah lived 969 years, and then he died.
28. When Lamech had lived 182 years, he had a son.
29. He named him Noah and said, "He will comfort us in the labor and painful toil of our hands caused by the ground the LORD has cursed."
30. After Noah was born, Lamech lived 595 years and had other sons and daughters.
31. Altogether, Lamech lived 777 years, and then he died.
32. After Noah was 500 years old, he became the father of Shem, Ham and Japheth.

Continuing...

Genesis 6
   1. When men began to increase in number on the earth and daughters were born to them,
   2. the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose.
   3. Then the LORD said, "My Spirit will not contend with man forever, for he is mortal ; his days will be a hundred and twenty years."
   4. The Nephilim were on the earth in those days--and also afterward--when the sons of God went to the daughters of men and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.
   5. The LORD saw how great man's wickedness on the earth had become, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil all the time.
   6. The LORD was grieved that he had made man on the earth, and his heart was filled with pain.
   7. So the LORD said, "I will wipe mankind, whom I have created, from the face of the earth--men and animals, and creatures that move along the ground, and birds of the air--for I am grieved that I have made them."
8. But Noah found favor in the eyes of the LORD.
9. This is the account of Noah.   Noah was a righteous man, blameless among the people of his time, and he walked with God.
10. Noah had three sons: Shem, Ham and Japheth.

Nowhere does the text say that the sons of Noah went over to the area where Cain's descendants were living for a wife.

Now things have dried out...

Gene

sis 9:20-27
20. Noah, a man of the soil, proceeded to plant a vineyard.
21. When he drank some of its wine, he became drunk and lay uncovered inside his tent.
22. Ham, the father of Canaan, saw his father's nakedness and told his two brothers outside.
23. But Shem and Japheth took a garment and laid it across their shoulders; then they walked in backward and covered their father's nakedness. Their faces were turned the other way so that they would not see their father's nakedness.
24. When Noah awoke from his wine and found out what his youngest son had done to him,
25. he said, "Cursed be Canaan! The lowest of slaves will he be to his brothers."
26. He also said, "Blessed be the LORD, the God of Shem! May Canaan be the slave of Shem.
27. May God extend the territory of Japheth ; may Japheth live in the tents of Shem, and may Canaan be his slave."

Ok, now you got SLAVES mentioned, but nowhere does the text say these 'slaves' had black skin.

(I find it interesting the HAM was the bad boy in this account, yet it is CANAAN that is cursed!!!)

So, from the Bible, I cannot tell you WHERE black skin came from; only that it CAN'T be proven (from the Bible) where it did.

Can anyone show us, from the BoM, where it did?

The notion that John Brown served as a justification, much less initiation of the war is ridiculous, and is the sort of thing that all men of good conscience and reasonable intellect ought to quash as nonsense. The raid demonstrated nothing but the swift and urgent response by the union to a menace to a soon-to-be-confederate state.

Perhaps you're right, I've been misinformed...

Brown was executed December 2, 1859.
Brown’s wife, Mary, took his body home to North Elba, New York for burial.
A contemporary newspaper account foretold a grim future. “The Harpers Ferry invasion has advanced the cause of disunion more than any other event that has happened since the formation of the Government.”
Hope of compromise between the North and South slipped into oblivion.
Civil War was inevitable.
http://www.nps.gov/hafe/historyculture/upload/John%20Brown's%20Raid.pdf

Brought to trial at nearby Charles Town, Brown was found guilty of treason, of conspiring with slaves to rebel, and murder. He was hanged on December 2, 1859. John Brown's short-lived raid failed, but his trial and execution focused the nation's attention on the moral issue of slavery and headed the country toward civil war.
http://www.nps.gov/archive/hafe/history.htm

John Brown, still recovering from a sword wound, stood trial at the Jefferson County Courthouse on October 26. Five days later, a jury found him guilty of treason against the Commonwealth of Virginia. Judge Richard Parker sentenced Brown to death and he was hanged in Charles Town on December 2. Before walking to the scaffold, he noted the inevitability of a national civil war: "I, John Brown, am now quite certain that the crimes of this guilty land will never be purged away but with blood."
http://www.wvculture.org/history/jnobrown.html

Gerrit Smith
- Harper's Ferry and the Aftermath
...The Harper's Ferry raid has been described as the act that lit the fuse on the start of the American Civil War...
http://www.nyhistory.com/gerritsmith/harpers.htm

John Brown's 1859 Raid on Harpers Ferry
A century and a half after his death, John Brown remains one of the most controversial figures in American history. On October 16, 1859 Brown, along with 21 followers came to Harpers Ferry, Virginia to strike a blow against slavery. The raid failed and Brown was hanged in December of 1859, but sixteen months later, the country erupted in civil war.
http://www.harpersferryhistory.org/johnbrown.htm

The raid on Harpers Ferry 1859
Brown, who was seriously wounded, was taken to Charlestown, Virginia (now Charles Town, West Virginia), along with the other captives. There they were quickly tried, sentenced, then executed. John Brown's statements during his trial reached the nation, inspiring many with his righteous indignation toward slavery. The raid ultimately hastened the advent of the Civil War.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aia/part4/4p2940.html

Again, I didn't say it was THE cause but a contributory event... and it was not in SC...

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