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To: rollo tomasi
Wow, I thought it was about the Irish wanting to be self-autonomous in N. Ireland. Of course you have the Catholic/Protty element but the core is not religious.

The Catholic Protestant facet of the Troubles is not an 'element', but a root cause; THE cause in fact that led to every other element of the conflict.

Without Catholics fighting Protestants, and vice versa, there is no conflict.

Great Britain was a Catholic bastion and an ally of not only France but the Vatican at the time? Wow! Was basically a mixture of religious as well as acquiring/preventing of strategic land masses (By Russia).

It was a war for control and sovereignty over the Holy Land; a religious war between Eastern Orthodox and the Western Christian powers.

Wars between countries over religion died down but Europe after 1648 was hardly secular.

They became more secular. I didn't imply an instant shift, but a gradual secularization between then and the late 20th century. It's undeniable.

No, forward-deployed weapons that could annihilate cities with one shot is what keeps “the peace” and prevents serious hot wars from occurring

I'll take the 'No' as an agreement.

They just filled the void from a population which turned their backs on God.

Sure, and it was an easy transition; it's very simple to morph religious authoritarianism to secular authoritarianism. It's still authoritarianism.

Find a society based on the ideals of those in that latter half of the sentence, and tell me which one has slouched into poverty, repression, and dictatorship.

Don't look long because you won't find one.

41 posted on 03/18/2009 1:58:49 PM PDT by GunRunner
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To: GunRunner
“Without Catholics fighting Protestants, and vice versa, there is no conflict.”

Umm, tell that to the un-spirtual “Catholics” (Ever been to Northern Ireland) who want the English GOVERNMENT out.

“It was a war for control and sovereignty over the Holy Land; a religious war between Eastern Orthodox and the Western Christian powers.”

Bwahahahaaa... That is how it started “bubbling” but wait.... why did Great Britain “join” the Vatican/France. What RELIGION did Great Britain promote? It certainly was not Anglican as their intentions were FAR from “religion”.

“I didn't imply an instant shift, but a gradual secularization between then and the late 20th century.”

Right, after Nazism/Communism. 300+ years with the Great Awakening thrown in was a loonnnnggggg time between a COUPLE of aggressive atheistic States. Good grief.

“I'll take the ‘No’ as an agreement.”

Jesus said it was not going to be perfect. Just because someone fancies a belief in God does not immune oneself from temptations of desire, covet, power, lack of self-control etc... Also, humans have never used Christ name in vain by their actions./s Pretty easy to spot the frauds if you are “filled” with Holy Spirit (Which a lot a people claim to be).

“Sure, and it was an easy transition; it's very simple to morph religious authoritarianism to secular authoritarianism. It's still authoritarianism.”

Which is why countries that experiment in personnel liberty (Not talking about genitals) often lose sight of the God given free will which the powers that be do not respect. United States had a good run, too bad it is fading. You seem to imply the teachings of Christ to some earthly institution, big mistake.

“Find a society based on the ideals of those in that latter half of the sentence, and tell me which one has slouched into poverty, repression, and dictatorship.”

So it's “religions” fault for secular authoritarianism, is that what you are implying. I got it, lol. Gee, the Greeks never let religion (Although they had rites, religion was not an important player in politics in most poleis) get in the way of their city States, Romans to some extent who Greece was easy pickings, whole host of African societies, Persia namely Iran before Islam and in between Islam, United States is falling fast, better watch out, etc...

I am still trying to find pure “secular societies” (Whose populous is mostly agnostic) that last, the work ethic involved is pretty nonexistent.

42 posted on 03/18/2009 3:03:07 PM PDT by rollo tomasi (Working hard to pay for deadbeats and corrupt politicians.)
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