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What is the role of grace in LDS theology? (OPEN)
Gospel Library ^ | Robert E. Parsons

Posted on 03/13/2009 6:31:13 AM PDT by greyfoxx39

 
 

“I Have a Question,” Ensign, Jul 1989, 59–61

Questions of general gospel interest answered for guidance, not as official statements of Church policy.

What is the role of grace in LDS theology?

Robert E. Parsons, “I Have a Question,” Ensign, July 1989, 59–61

Robert E. Parsons, associate professor of ancient scripture, Brigham Young University.

One cannot be an active Christian or a student of the scriptures without being introduced to the term grace. It is as much a part of Christian theology and doctrine as are faith, baptism, the Atonement, and the Judgment. Just as we grow in our spiritual understanding of these principles, so we must grow in our spiritual understanding of grace. Scriptural statements about grace are clear and faith-promoting to those who understand the gospel. But they are often misunderstood by those who interpret them without a proper understanding of the gospel, and they are but foolishness to those who reject Christ as their Redeemer.

What Is Grace?

Grace is God’s love in action. It is his doing for us what we cannot do for ourselves. With his infinite wisdom, power, and love, God willingly condescends to extend that infinite wisdom, power, and love to bless and save his children. Elder Bruce R. McConkie wrote that “God’s grace consists in his love, mercy, and condescension toward his children. All things that exist are manifestations of the grace of God. The creation of the earth, life itself, the atonement of Christ, the plan of salvation, kingdoms of immortal glory hereafter, and the supreme gift of eternal life—all these things come by the grace of him whose we are.” (Mormon Doctrine, 2d ed., Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1966, pp. 338–39; italics in original.)

The LDS Bible Dictionary defines grace as “a word that occurs frequently in the New Testament, especially in the writings of Paul. The main idea of the word is divine means of help or strength, given through the bounteous mercy and love of Jesus Christ.” (P. 697.)

Grace and Salvation

Just as grace means different things to different readers of the Bible, so also does the term salvation, which may refer to being saved from death or hell, or inheriting the telestial, terrestrial, or celestial kingdoms. One of its most common uses in the scriptures is to be saved in the celestial kingdom.

In searching for salvation, each generation has asked the question the Zoramites raised during Alma’s and Amulek’s mission to them about 74 b.c.:

“We have beheld that the great question which is in your minds is whether the word be in the Son of God, or whether there shall be no Christ.” (Alma 34:5.)

This has been the question of the ages: How are we saved? That is, how are we saved from death, and how are we saved from the effects of sin? To answer this question, let us consider two other questions: Is it only through the name of Christ that we are saved from both death and sin? If so, are we saved by the grace of Christ?

The answer to both these questions is a resounding yes. We are saved only through the name of Christ, and we are saved only by the grace of Christ. Further questions now arise: Are we saved through Christ’s grace by merely confessing him as our Savior? Or are we saved through his grace after doing all we can—both in confessing his name and in keeping his commandments? Both reason and scripture loudly proclaim the latter, as we will see as we look at the scriptures and seek to understand the doctrine of grace.

What the Bible Records about Grace

The Bible teaches at least five important principles about grace:

1. Salvation through Christ’s grace differs from—and is both additional and superior to—the law of Moses. The Prophet Joseph Smith’s translation of John 1:15–17 reads:

“John bear witness of him, and cried, saying, This is he of whom I spake: He who cometh after me, is preferred before me; for he was before me.

“For in the beginning was the Word, even the Son, who is made flesh, and sent unto us by the will of the Father. And as many as believe on his name shall receive of his fulness. And of his fulness have all we received, even immortality and eternal life, through his grace.

“For the law was given through Moses, but life and truth came through Jesus Christ.”

Because the Jews of Jesus’ day relied on salvation through individual works through the law of Moses, Paul emphasized that man is not saved by such works (works performed under the law of Moses), but by grace—the acceptance of Christ as the Savior and the works required by such acceptance. (For a discussion of the sectarian controversy over grace and works, see Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, comp. Bruce R. McConkie, 3 vols., Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1954–56, 2:306–11.)

2. All disciples of Christ, whether Jew or Gentile, are saved by grace. The Bible tells us how Peter resolved the “disputing” of whether or not both Jews and Gentiles are saved by grace with the words, “Ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. …

“Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

“But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.” (Acts 15:7, 10–11.)

3. Salvation through Christ comes by faith and grace, not just by lineal blood descent or by Church membership. The Prophet Joseph Smith’s translation of the Bible tells us that “the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

“For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:

“Therefore ye are justified of faith and works, through grace, to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to them only who are of the law, but to them also who are of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all.” (JST, Rom. 4:13–16.)

As it was incorrect for the Jews to believe that they would be saved simply because they were of the chosen lineage, so it is incorrect for Latter-day Saints to believe that we will be saved simply because we belong to the true church.

4. We cannot save ourselves by our own works. Ephesians 2:8–9 reminds us that “by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.” [Eph. 2:8–9]

Of this principle, Elder Bruce R. McConkie eloquently wrote that “man cannot save himself. He cannot be saved by the works of the Mosaic law; he cannot be saved by the works of the gospel. Man cannot resurrect himself; neither Mosaic works nor gospel works can bring him forth from the grave. The resurrection comes by the grace of God; all men are resurrected, and in that sense all are saved by grace alone. And further: No man can raise himself unto eternal life; he cannot create a state of salvation and provide the means to obtain it. Man cannot create the kingdom of God, nor can he save himself in such a kingdom. If it were not for the grace of God, as shown forth in the redemption of his Son, there would be no eternal life. Neither the works of the Mosaic law nor the works of Christian righteousness, standing alone, without the grace of God as manifest in the sacrifice of his Son, could save a man. Salvation does not come into being by the works of men; it comes because of Christ and his atonement. Because there was such an atonement, man can have faith, perform the works of righteousness, endure to the end, and ‘work out [his] own salvation with fear and trembling.’ (Philip. 2:12.)” (A New Witness for the Articles of Faith, Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1985, p. 150.)

5. The effects of the Fall can be overcome only by the atonement of Jesus Christ. The Bible also tells us that “since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

“For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.” (1 Cor. 15:21–22.)

Latter-day Scriptures Clarify the Bible’s Teachings about Grace

Grace is one of the most misunderstood doctrines in modern Christianity. It is through the clarity of the Book of Mormon that we are able to understand this doctrine and Paul’s New Testament teachings concerning it. Note how clear and simple the following six points from the Book of Mormon are:

1. Salvation is free to all who truly accept Christ. In 2 Nephi 2:4–6 we learn that “the way is prepared from the fall of man, and salvation is free. …

“Wherefore, redemption cometh in and through the Holy Messiah; for he is full of grace and truth.” [2 Ne. 2:4–6]

2. Though salvation is free (fully available and not withheld from anyone because of time, location, or lineage), we must reconcile ourselves to God. Nephi stressed the importance of doing so:

“We labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.” (2 Ne. 25:23.)

Under the topic grace, the LDS Bible Dictionary refers to the importance of effort in reconciling ourselves to God:

“Divine grace is needed by every soul in consequence of the fall of Adam and also because of man’s weaknesses and shortcomings. However, grace cannot suffice without total effort on the part of the recipient. Hence the explanation, “It is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.” (P. 697.)

3. To reconcile ourselves to God, we must accept Christ as our Savior and his gospel as the means of salvation. The Book of Mormon tells us that the Lord “cometh into the world that he may save all men if they will hearken unto his voice. …

“And he commandeth all men that they must repent, and be baptized in his name, having perfect faith in the Holy One of Israel, or they cannot be saved in the kingdom of God.” (2 Ne. 9:21–23.)

4. We have agency to choose Christ and his gospel. Lehi tells us that “Men are free according to the flesh; and all things are given them which are expedient unto man. And they are free to choose liberty and eternal life, through the great Mediator of all men, or to choose captivity and death, according to the captivity and power of the devil.” (2 Ne. 2:27.)

5. We have the power to keep God’s commandments and must do so in order to be saved in his kingdom. God is willing to save us (which we cannot do for ourselves) if we are willing to do what we have to do, which is to receive Christ as our Savior, repent of our sins, be baptized as a witness of our covenant with the Lord, and continue in a life of righteousness and obedience to the end of our probation on earth. (See 2 Ne. 31:13–21.)

6. The Book of Mormon clarifies that physical and spiritual death are both overcome for us by the atonement of Christ. Hence, if little children (who are spiritually alive in Christ) die, they are saved in the kingdom of God. (See Moro. 8:8, 12.) After the age of accountability, we become responsible for our own sins and “die” spiritually because of them. We must then receive Christ and his gospel to be born again and overcome spiritual death.

Since all men are redeemed from both physical and spiritual death, scriptural references that emphasize that we must receive Christ, be born again, and keep his commandments in order to be saved refer to being saved in the celestial kingdom. (See Alma 5:10–21; Hel. 14:15–19.)

Thus, the Book of Mormon enables us to understand what the New Testament’s authors say about grace. It confirms that the Lord has done for us what we cannot do for ourselves. First, Christ’s atonement saves us all from death by paying for Adam’s transgression, which brought death into the world. Since we had no power or control over that transgression, God’s grace and mercy take care of the penalty—this is the unconditional aspect of salvation. It guarantees that we all will be resurrected.

However, God’s grace will not do for us what we can do for ourselves. Accountable man has the power to accept Christ as his Savior. Accountable man can receive Christ’s gospel, with its principles of faith and repentance and its ordinances of baptism and the laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost. Accountable man can endure to the end by living a life of righteousness and service. When we are willing to do all this, God’s grace cleanses us from our sins, gives us the gift of the Holy Ghost, and blesses us to enable us to dwell in peace and holiness in the celestial kingdom forever.

Perfection and Grace

The crowning teaching about grace is that mankind may become perfect through Christ. From the Book of Mormon we learn that Christ is both the author and the finisher of our faith. (See Moro. 6:4.) It is the gospel of Jesus Christ that teaches or “authors” the plan of salvation. It is the Church of Jesus Christ that administers the ordinances necessary for our salvation and that provides for our spiritual growth by giving us opportunities to worship and to serve. But after all our efforts to accept Christ and his gospel, to receive saving ordinances, and to grow through worship and service, we still fall far, far short of perfection and the keeping of every commandment that is required for salvation in the celestial kingdom.

How fitting and beautiful that the Book of Mormon, this other testament of Jesus Christ, should close its witness by inviting us to become perfect in Christ. After all of our efforts, after all of our struggles with sin and the carnal aspects of the world, God, through his grace, will bestow upon the faithful his divine nature. (See 2 Pet. 1:3–4.) Only in this way can faithful men and women fully and completely put off the nature of fallen man and finally have the power to keep all the commandments and to dwell with God. This is the crowning act of God’s grace, which is referred to in Moroni’s closing statement in the Book of Mormon. It is a fitting conclusion to our discussion of the role of grace in LDS theology:

“Yea, come unto Christ, and be perfected in him, and deny yourselves of all ungodliness; and if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness, and love God with all your might, mind and strength, then is his grace sufficient for you, that by his grace ye may be perfect in Christ; and if by the grace of God ye are perfect in Christ, ye can in nowise deny the power of God.

“And again, if ye by the grace of God are perfect in Christ, and deny not his power, then are ye sanctified in Christ by the grace of God, through the shedding of the blood of Christ, which is in the covenant of the Father unto the remission of your sins, that ye become holy, without spot.” (Moro. 10:32–33.) 

.



TOPICS: General Discusssion; Theology
KEYWORDS: antimormonthread; christian; grace; lds; mormon
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To: freeplancer; reaganaut

How do you know reaganaut doesn’t do those things? A leetle mindreading?


461 posted on 03/16/2009 1:44:22 PM PDT by colorcountry (A faith without truth is not true faith.)
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To: reaganaut

After death, IT WILL BE TOO LATE
___________________________________________

Yes, it will be...

And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes JUDGEMENT.. Hebrews 9:27

Gollies...

No mention of dying and then attending church to hear some bodacious preachin’ of the gospel by a preacher...

or a snot nosed “elder” on a “celestial” bicycle...

Just death and JUDGEMENT...


462 posted on 03/16/2009 1:46:22 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: ejonesie22

LOL


463 posted on 03/16/2009 1:48:31 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: freeplancer; reaganaut
Um...

Interesting what you assume...

I am a peer of reaganaut and often one of your so called “snipers”.

I am also on the BOD of a prison ministry, 2 food banks and work on overseas mission trips building Medical Clinics in Central America.

It is not unusual for me to spend at least 3 weekends a year locked behind prison bars away from my family sharing the Good News of Christ with other Protestants and Catholics (don't forget we “hate” each other.).

So you were saying?

464 posted on 03/16/2009 1:48:35 PM PDT by ejonesie22 (Stupidity has an expiration date 1-20-2013 *(Thanks Nana))
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To: Tennessee Nana

Pay lay ALE.

Dontch know SOMEone can do your temple work and save ya after you die. Iffn’ you didn’t get a chance ta meet two young men on bikes during your lifetime.

It seems those two young men shoulda just saved themselves the time and went directly to the temple instead of trying to baptize those poor living lost souls - just necro-cunk them after they die.


465 posted on 03/16/2009 1:49:04 PM PDT by colorcountry (A faith without truth is not true faith.)
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To: colorcountry

Indeed...


466 posted on 03/16/2009 1:49:12 PM PDT by ejonesie22 (Stupidity has an expiration date 1-20-2013 *(Thanks Nana))
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To: reaganaut
It is said, "By their fruits ye shall know them." I doubt any reasonable person who reads this or any of the other "Mormons are evil" threads would be able to identify any good fruits from any of them. If you know the Truth, you should be happy, not angry. If you have a good relationship with God, the incorrectness of others should generate compassion for their error and not the urge to ridicule. Someone who is possessed of the love of Christ isn't capable of posting the things that are regularly posted here. Indeed, as it says in Proverbs:

8 Scornful men bring a city into a snare: but wise men turn away wrath.

Proverbs 29:8

These threads invite wrath. They revel in it. This is not Godly no matter who it comes from.

467 posted on 03/16/2009 1:51:42 PM PDT by Reaganesque
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To: freeplancer
BTW, all of the organizations i work with are ecumenical and made of of members from numerous of your ‘feuding” denominations, all sharing the same message of God's Grace and Love...

Amazing we don't kill each other in the conference room before coffee...

LOL...

468 posted on 03/16/2009 1:52:08 PM PDT by ejonesie22 (Stupidity has an expiration date 1-20-2013 *(Thanks Nana))
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To: greyfoxx39

If you think that was a personal attack then you yourself are in danger of being kicked out of your own thread by the very rules you are hiding behind.


469 posted on 03/16/2009 1:53:13 PM PDT by Reaganesque
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To: freeplancer

freeplancer,

If you can make that verse mean more than what it says, I’d love to hear it! THAT’S ENTERTAINMENT!

“Which denomination do you belong to?

None. I do belong to a Church. We have many names. Perhaps you will recognize one!

Body of Christ (Ephesians 1:22, 23; Colossians 1:24).
Bride of Christ (Revelation 21:9).
Church of God (Acts 20:28).
Church of the firstborn (Hebrews 12:23).
Church of the Living God (1 Timothy 3:15).
City of the Living God (Hebrews 12:22).
Family in heaven and earth (Ephesians 3:15).
Flock of God (1 Peter 5:2).
Fold of Christ (John 10:16).
General assembly of the firstborn (Hebrews 12:23).
God’s building (1 Corinthians 3:9).
God’s heritage (1 Peter 5:3).
God’s husbandry (1 Corinthians 3:9).
Golden candlestick (Revelation 1:20).
Habitation of God (Ephesians 2:22).
Heavenly Jerusalem (Galatians 4:26; Hebrews 12:22).
Holy Temple (Ephesians 2:21).
House of Christ (Hebrews 3:6).
House of God (1 Timothy 3:15; Hebrews 10:21).
Household of God (Ephesians 2:19).
Israel of God (Galatians 6:16).
Pillar and ground of the truth (1 Timothy 3:15).
Spiritual house (1 Peter 2:5).
Temple of God (1 Corinthians 3:16-17).
Temple of the Living God (2 Corinthians 6:16).
Vineyard (Jeremiah 12:10; Matthew 21:41).

A fantastic church! I commend it to you.

No secret rituals.
No secret handshakes - our God knows hearts already.
No baptism for the dead.
No polygamy.
No earning God’s favor - never allowed.
Everyone is part of the Priesthood - even women.
Can’t buy your way in.
Can’t earn your way in.
Can’t become God - there is only One.

You can enter today, if you give up on your own works and accept His gracious gift by faith.

best,
ampu


470 posted on 03/16/2009 1:53:13 PM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion ("I, El Rushbo -- and I say this happily -- have hijacked Obama's honeymoon.")
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To: Reaganesque
It is said, "By their fruits ye shall know them."

Matthew 7:15"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16By their fruit you will recognize them.

This was responding to Prophets specifically, not believers or a relilgion.

Christ also said in that same chapter

22Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

471 posted on 03/16/2009 1:58:00 PM PDT by colorcountry (A faith without truth is not true faith.)
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To: colorcountry

Ice cold Pale Ale...

Someone might just decide to nerco-dunk me ???

Bet there has already been a lottery of sorts among the mormon FReepers ...

LOL

Too bad...TOOOOOOOOOO late...

A JW lady claimed me as her slave more than 30 years ago...

Now that’s interesting ...(if you are into counting navel lint)

Who gets me ??? The JWs or the mormons ???

That JW lady was pretty determined...

:)


472 posted on 03/16/2009 1:59:56 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: ejonesie22; Elsie; reaganaut; greyfoxx39; Reaganesque

I doubt very much that you, I, elsie, reaganaut, or greyfoxx are members of the same denominations. In fact I’m sure we are “feuding” with each other (according to Mormonism).

Why can’t these Mormons see that their Church is lying to them about Christians and their relationship to Christ and His Church?


473 posted on 03/16/2009 2:01:05 PM PDT by colorcountry (A faith without truth is not true faith.)
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To: colorcountry

Answer that and you save them all...


474 posted on 03/16/2009 2:02:01 PM PDT by ejonesie22 (Stupidity has an expiration date 1-20-2013 *(Thanks Nana))
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To: aMorePerfectUnion

Wow, ashamed to name your denomination huh? Not only are you like Judas in denying Christ, you also thought it would be an act of goodwill to throw in some assumptions you have about another religion. You only have two more times to deny Christ, and then you are SOL. What denomination do you belong to? Or is it like Climate Change, you can add or subtract any denomination that does or does not appeal to you. Imagine that, talk all that smack and you are ashamed of your relationship with God.


475 posted on 03/16/2009 2:03:03 PM PDT by freeplancer
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To: Alamo-Girl; restornu
From post #383 by restornu: Well that might be so but it is not the LDS who follow the Tradition of Men Trinity version.

Here is a short comment from the LDS on the Creation.

True to its name, the book of Genesis records the origin of this earth and the beginning of our sojourn here. Moses wrote the book (see 1 Ne. 5:11) and included such sweeping events as the Creation, the Fall, the Flood, and the lives of the patriarchs Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and Joseph. Because what is recorded in Genesis is very brief in nature—only 78 pages in the Latter-day Saint edition of the Bible—detail is lacking. But through the blessings of additional scriptures, including the Joseph Smith Translation, and through what we learn in the temple and in the teachings of living prophets, we have answers to many fundamental questions that come to mind as one studies the Bible.

Here is one section on this article that you might be interested in.

 

By Robert J. Woodford

Pre-earth Existence

The story of creation did not begin with the formation of this earth. It extends back into what we call the pre-earth, or premortal, existence. Our understanding of the events in Genesis 1–3 is not complete if we ignore what went on before.

“This doctrine of premortal life was known to ancient Christians. For nearly five hundred years the doctrine was taught, but it was then rejected as a heresy by a clergy that had slipped into the Dark Ages of apostasy,” President Packer has taught.

“Once they rejected this doctrine, the doctrine of premortal life, and the doctrine of redemption for the dead, they could never unravel the mystery of life. They became like a man trying to assemble a strand of pearls on a string that was too short. There is no way they can put them all together. …  

“There is no way to make sense out of life without a knowledge of the doctrine of premortal life.

“The idea that mortal birth is the beginning is preposterous. There is no way to explain life if you believe that.

“The notion that life ends with mortal death is ridiculous. There is no way to face life if you believe that.

“When we understand the doctrine of premortal life, then things fit together and make sense.” 6

We know from latter-day revelation that our existence did not begin with our birth on this earth and that we are eternal beings (see D&C 93:29). 7 We are the sons and daughters of God the Father—his spirit children (see Heb. 12:9; D&C 76:24). We also know that there were opportunities in the pre-earth existence for us to learn and grow and that we had our moral agency to choose (see Alma 13:3).

Additionally, we know that gender did not begin at birth; it existed in the pre-earth life. 8 In the document “The Family: A Proclamation to the World” we read: “All human beings—male and female—are created in the image of God. Each is a beloved spirit son or daughter of heavenly parents, and, as such, each has a divine nature and destiny. Gender is an essential characteristic of individual premortal, mortal, and eternal identity and purpose.” 9

We know that there was a council of the Gods in which the plan of our Eternal Father was sustained. 10 This plan included the Creation of the earth on which we now dwell (see Abr. 3:24). The plan provided that while here we would be tested according to the commandments God would give us, and we would have moral agency to choose (Moses 6:33; Moses 7:33). This plan presupposed that Adam and Eve would fall from the Garden of Eden, so it provided for the Savior (see Alma 34:9–10, 14–15), a mediator who would provide the means whereby we could succeed in this earth-life experience and return to our Father in Heaven prepared for the next phase of our development (see Alma 12:24).

A “grand council” was held. There God the Father’s spirit children were taught the plan. The firstborn of our Father’s children was chosen as the Savior and Redeemer (see Abr. 3:27). 11 Those who did not sustain that choice rebelled (see Abr. 3:28). They did not keep their first estate, were cast out of heaven, and became Satan and his angels (see Rev. 12:7–9; Moses 4:3–4; D&C 29:36; D&C 76:28).

The plan called for those who kept their first estate to come to this earth (the second estate), receive a mortal body, and be tested to see if they would obey the Father in everything (see Abr. 3:25–26). The time and “the bounds of [our] habitation” were predetermined (Acts 17:26), and some were even foreordained to callings on this earth (see Abr. 3:23; Alma 13:3–9).

Link

The subject of premortal existence has also been discussed HERE

LDS belief is definitely not the "Trinity Version", however it is not the Christian version either.

476 posted on 03/16/2009 2:04:35 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Recession-Your neighbor loses his job, Depression-you lost your job, Recovery-Obama loses HIS job.)
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To: freeplancer; Religion Moderator
Not only are you like Judas in denying Christ, you also thought it would be an act of goodwill to throw in some assumptions you have about another religion.

WOW! If that isn't some name-calling and mind-reading, I don't know what is!

477 posted on 03/16/2009 2:04:42 PM PDT by colorcountry (A faith without truth is not true faith.)
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Comment #478 Removed by Moderator

To: freeplancer
More assumptions?

You are quite good at that endeavor.

However I hope you refrain from any critical use of your "talent"...

479 posted on 03/16/2009 2:08:12 PM PDT by ejonesie22 (Stupidity has an expiration date 1-20-2013 *(Thanks Nana))
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To: freeplancer

BTW, if it helps you in whatever way seems to benefit you, I am a Methodist, though for many years I was a member of the Orthodox Faith.


480 posted on 03/16/2009 2:10:21 PM PDT by ejonesie22 (Stupidity has an expiration date 1-20-2013 *(Thanks Nana))
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