Can God create another God?

self | 2/28/09 | self

[fproy2222]

I have been told, here at FR, that God only creates lesser beings.

Is this because he chooses not to create someone equal to Himself, or is God unable to create someone equal to Himself?

[reaganaut]

Ignore her. The “scripture” she quoted was from an Egyptian Funeral papayri that joseph smith claimed to have translated, which has many times proven to be completely wrong. And yes, I DO read Egyptain Hieroglyphs (studied at UCLA). I learned them to prove the above text “correct”, and found out the opposite. And translation does mean translation, not storytelling.

Secondly, the lowercase gods in the first commandment refer to PAGAN deities that were common objects of worship. There God is commanding them not to just include Him in their household gods, they are to worship Him alone.

For us to believe that we can even come CLOSE to becoming a god, is BLASPHEMY.

[restornu]

I love that hymn and sang it many times so to say we can’t talk about is rediculous

[reaganaut]

Several feminists have been ex-communicated or warned for wanting open discussion of Mother in Heaven. It is also a topic that is strongly discouraged, if not forbidden (in my ward it was forbidden). That hymn is a rare mention of mother in heaven.

[restornu]

Several feminists have been ex-communicated or warned for wanting open discussion of Mother in Heaven. It is also a topic that is strongly discouraged, if not forbidden (in my ward it was forbidden). That hymn is a rare mention of mother in heaven.

***

Boloney first of all for now it is what “makes one reason” so therefore it is not official and was never canonized.

Logic is if you have a Father and a Son you must also have a Mother.

[reaganaut]

Boloney first of all for now it is what “makes one reason” so therefore it is not official and was never canonized.

Logic is if you have a Father and a Son you must also have a Mother.

---

There are a lot of doctrine believed and discussed by the rank and file Mormons that are not part of “official” doctrine. That it is not official is the “pat answer” for anything embarrassing.

Your logic is faulty. God is NOT bound by our lowly human methods of creation. Mary was Jesus’ mother not “God’s Wife” (which He doesn’t have).

I am amazed at how oft

[wardaddy]

God created his son to live and die amongst us.

For us.

A far better use of God power.

[greyfoxx39]

BTTT

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

***Which God are we referring to?
The jealous and vindictive one of the Old Testament, or the loving
One in the New Testament?***

Oh boy! A MARCIONITE! A follower of “The spawn of SATAN!”-—Polycarp

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

From the Book of Abraham. Chapter 1 verse 1

I/1) [”Osiris, the god’s father], prophet of Amon-Re, King of the Gods, prophet of Min who slaughters his enemies, prophet of Khonsu, the [one who exercises] authority in Thebes, (I/2) [. . .] . . . Hor, the justified, son of the similarly titled overseer of secrets and purifier of the god, Osorwer, the justified, born by the [housewife and sistrum-player of ] (I/3) [Amon]-Re, Taikhibit, the justified! May your ba-spirit live among them, and may you be buried on the west [of Thebes].” (I/4) [”O Anubis(?),51 . . .] justification(?). (I/5) [May you give to him] a good and splendid burial on the west of Thebes as on the mountains of Ma[nu](?).”

http://www.bookofabraham.com/boamathie/BOA_6.html

[greyfoxx39]

A FACSIMILE FROM
THE BOOK OF ABRAHAM

 

 

No. 1

EXPLANATION

Fig. 1. The Angel of the Lord.

Fig. 2. Abraham fastened upon an altar.

Fig. 3. The idolatrous priest of Elkenah attempting to offer up Abraham as a sacrifice.

Fig. 4. The altar for sacrifice by the idolatrous priests, standing before the gods of Elkenah, Libnah, Mahmackrah, Korash, and Pharaoh.

Fig. 5. The idolatrous god of Elkenah.

Fig. 6. The idolatrous god of Libnah.

Fig. 7. The idolatrous god of Mahmackrah.

Fig. 8. The idolatrous god of Korash.

Fig. 9. The idolatrous god of Pharaoh.

Fig. 10. Abraham in Egypt.

Fig. 11. Designed to represent the pillars of heaven, as understood by the Egyptians.

Fig. 12. Raukeeyang, signifying expanse, or the firmament over our heads; but in this case, in relation to this subject, the Egyptians meant it to signify Shaumau, to be high, or the heavens, answering to the Hebrew word, Shaumahyeem.

 

scriptures LDS.org

[greyfoxx39]

Translation of Egyptian Symbols — The Breathing Permit of Hôr

Below is a comparison between Joseph's interpretations and our current Egyptological understanding of these images.

Facsimile #1 figures: Joseph Smith's interpretations versus current Egyptological understanding

Figure #	Joseph Smith	Egyptology
Figure 1	The Angel of the Lord.	Egyptologists see this as the "ba" of the deceased. The ba is basically a person's personality — all of his/her non-physical attributes. Therefore, ancient Egyptians would have recognized this figure as the "ba" of Hôr (the deceased priest), who is also figure 2. It would normally have a human head instead of a bird's head.
Figure 2	Abraham fastened upon an alter	This is, as we've already discussed, actually the deceased with whom this papyrus was found. His name is Hôr.
Figure 3	The idolatrous priest of Elkenah attempting to offer up Abraham as a sacrifice.	There has been a little bit of controversy over the years regarding this figure. Prior to the papyri's recovery in 1968, Egyptologists had been puzzled that there was a man with a man's head standing over the deceased. It was so atypical. Normally, during other similar scenes, this figure would have a jackal's head and would have represented the god of embalming, Anubis. During the controversy at the beginning of the 20th century (before the original papyri had resurfaced) Egyptologists generally said this figure was probably representing a priest doing the actual embalming — which was odd for an ancient document of this sort, but interesting. Now, however, we realize that where the picture begins to go awry is the exact place where it is damaged in the original (see a close-up in footnote 2). How do we know that it wasn't damaged after Joseph Smith's time? Because the scroll was originally rolled up. Any substantial damage to the outside could have "bled through", so to speak, to the inside layers. And, in fact, this is exactly what happened. When looking at the scroll all laid out, you can see a repeating pattern of damage that retains it's basic shape, but gets smaller toward what would have been the inner layers. Facsimile #1 would have been at the beginning of the scroll, so the damage luckily wasn't as great, but it reflects the same damage pattern as can be seen on the outer layers of the scroll. This, along with other indicators, such as the black coloring, the type of clothing, the context, etc., allows us to recognize Figure 2 as Anubis, the god of embalming, and the god who helps the deceased along in the afterlife.
Figure 4	The altar for sacrifice by the idolatrous priests, standing before the gods of Elkenah, Libnah, Mahmackrah, Korash, and Pharaoh.	In reality, this is a "lion couch" — simply a funeral bier. You can see this in many funeral scenes in ancient Egyptian art. Human sacrifice was never practiced in Egypt (except possibly very early in Egyptian history (1st Dynasty) and possibly in Egyptian pre-history, all of which would have pre-dated Abraham by a very, very long time). Therefore, an "altar for sacrifice" for humans would have been unknown to Egyptians.
Figure 5-8	The idolatrous god[s] of Elkenah... Libnah... Mahmackrah... Korash... Pharaoh.	First of all, there are no gods called "Elkenah," "Libnah," "Mahmackrah," or "Korash" in the 5000+ years of Egypt's recorded history. And, as we will discuss later, the word "Pharoah" may not have even existed in Abraham's day, depending on when Abraham would have lived. Secondly, these figures are extremely well-known in ancient Egyptian funeral scenes. They are canopic jars containing the deceased's internal organs that were always removed during the embalming process. They represent the four sons of the god Horus, who are: (fig. 5) Qebehseneuf — receives the intestines3, (fig. 6) Duamutef — receives the stomach4, (fig. 7) Hapy — receives the lungs5, and (fig. 8) Imsety — receives the liver.6
Figure 9	The idolatrous god of Pharaoh.	Stephen E. Thompson, professor of Egyptology at Brown University and member of the LDS Church, identifies this crocodile as represesenting the god Horus.7 While Sobek is often portrayed in the form of a crocodile, (see this link on Sobek) in the case of this re-enactment of the Osiris-myth, it would be more appropriate to identify this figure as Horus. As Klaus Baer noted: "The versions of the Osiris myth differ in telling how Seth disposed of Osiris after murdering him, but he was commonly believed to have cut Osiris into little pieces, which he scattered into the Nile, leaving Isis the task of fishing out and assembling the parts of her brother and husband so that he could be resurrected and beget Horus. In this she was helped by Horus in the shape of a crocodile, who is represented in the water (the zigzags) below the vignette....8 "Möller... discusses the occasionally attested practice of having a small (and prudently muzzled) crocodile swim alongside the boat carrying the mummy across the Nile to the cemetery."9
Figure 10	Abraham in Egypt.	It is actually a libation platform bearing wines, oils and a stylized papyrus plant. In Egyptian art, it is found in almost all drawings of major god figures, and has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with Abraham.10
Figure 11	Designed to represent the pillars of heaven, as understood by the Egyptians.	On the contrary, the Egyptians would have seen this as a palace facade, called a "serekh" which, according to Egyptologist Stephen E. Thompson, was a frequent decoration on funerary objects. The "serekh" originally depicted the front of a fortified palace, and the reason it seems to be on the bottom of the picture is due to the way Egyptians would draw in perspective. This fortification would have been seen as being in front of this scene rather than underneath it. In other words, the embalming and resurrection of the Osiris Hôr would have taken place inside the safe confines of the serekh.11
Figure 12	Raukeeyang, signifying expanse, or the firmament over our heads; but in this case, in relation to this subject, the Egyptians meant it to signify Shaumau, to be high, or the heavens, answering to the Hebrew word, Shaumahyeem.	First of all, none of these words are Egyptian. They are all Hebrew transliterations — Joseph was studying Hebrew with a Prof. Josuah Seixas at the time he obtained the papyri, and even though Joseph interpreted these figures during the Nauvoo period (after 1838), these transliterations are specifically in Seixas's style.12 Secondly, these strokes represent water in which the crocodile swims — which makes sense in this context. If figure #11 is a palace fortification, then these crocodile-infested waters would be a second line of defense against intrusion, keeping the deceased doubly-safe.13

[Godzilla]

The way Smith forged it

The way it should have been reconstructed.

[Godzilla]

Ignore her. The “scripture” she quoted was from an Egyptian Funeral papayri that joseph smith claimed to have translated, which has many times proven to be completely wrong.

Correct, only a fake prophet makes a fake translation of a real document.

[restornu]

Ya all can ignore me but what else would I expect from the ignorant of how often an Egyptian papayri is used by different Egyptian authors for different purpose or events!

[Force of Truth]

I saw the video on that. Smith was a fraud.

[Force of Truth]

God is the First Cause, He did not create Himself and He can't create anything as Great as He, as far as I know. None of us can understand this, as far as I know. God said that His ways are above our ways. As far as I know, we will never know what God knows.

So here it is:
Job 40:9-14
Have you an arm like God, and can you thunder with a voice like his? "Adorn yourself with majesty and dignity; clothe yourself with glory and splendor. Pour out the overflowings of your anger, and look on everyone who is proud and abase him. Look on everyone who is proud and bring him low and tread down the wicked where they stand. Hide them all in the dust together; bind their faces in the world below. Then will I also acknowledge to you that your own right hand can save you.

[Force of Truth]

Same as “can god create a rock he can’t lift???”**

God can’t do a lot of things. He can’t be and not be. He can’t force people to love Him and still call it Love. In fact, he can’t do anything that is not logical. So what? It does not make Him any less of a God, it just means we live in a universe of order, ordered by The First Cause.

[Godzilla]

Ya all can ignore me but what else would I expect from the ignorant of how often an Egyptian papayri is used by different Egyptian authors for different purpose or events!

You ignore pinging the ones you are actually addressing Resty - poor form. The translation is clear - the different authors different purposes argument is bunk.

[Force of Truth]

It might be a question that makes no sense. There cannot be two beings who are the most powerful being in the universe.***

Exactly. God BY DEFINITION is the greatest being. He is The First Cause.

[GOPJ]

How many angels can He fit on a pin?