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To: DelphiUser

As for Joseph smith, it’s pretty clear (except for those who don’t want to see) that Joseph had a problem with the trinity after being called as a prophet and seeing Jesus stand on the right hand of God (just like Stephen).
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1. It’s not CLEAR...

2. Where’s the written documentation that states “Joseph had a problem with the trinity after being called as a prophet and seeing Jesus stand on the right hand of God (just like Stephen).” in Joe Smith’s own words...

3. If Joe Smith said he saw “Jesus stand on the right hand of God (just like Stephen).”, where’s the documentation ???

4. Joe Smith alleges that he saw “two personages” in a grove...that the “two personages” came to him...

Stephen looked into HEAVEN and saw Jesus at the right hand of God...

Act 7:55 But he, (Stephen) being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into Heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,

Act 7:56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God. Acts 7:55, 56

Nope, definitely no the same...

Even Joe Smith never said it was the same...


89 posted on 02/16/2009 10:19:31 AM PST by Tennessee Nana
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To: Tennessee Nana
DU: As for Joseph smith, it’s pretty clear (except for those who don’t want to see) that Joseph had a problem with the trinity after being called as a prophet and seeing Jesus stand on the right hand of God (just like Stephen).


TN: 1. It’s not CLEAR...

IMHO, You also don't want to see.

TN: 2. Where’s the written documentation that states “Joseph had a problem with the trinity after being called as a prophet and seeing Jesus stand on the right hand of God (just like Stephen).” in Joe Smith’s own words...

It's in the D&C

TN: 3. If Joe Smith said he saw “Jesus stand on the right hand of God (just like Stephen).”, where’s the documentation ???

It's in the D&C

TN: 4. Joe Smith alleges that he saw “two personages” in a grove...that the “two personages” came to him...

Alleges, kind of like Stephen alleged to have seen God and Christ? What is this corruption of history by saying alleged like you are a court reporter talking about a criminal who just hasn't yet been convicted... Yet, It's a pathetic tactic and not one used by someone who wants the truth or is open to it. Hence IMHO, you just don't want to see.

Joseph Smith testified and like Stephen was killed for his testimony of God and Christ.

Then there is Joseph's comparison of his vision with Paul's vision and how Paul was treated:
24 However, it was nevertheless a fact that I had beheld a vision. I have thought since, that I felt much like Paul, when he made his defense before King Agrippa, and related the account of the vision he had when he saw a light, and heard a voice; but still there were but few who believed him; some said he was dishonest, others said he was mad; and he was ridiculed and reviled. But all this did not destroy the reality of his vision. He had seen a vision, he knew he had, and all the persecution under heaven could not make it otherwise; and though they should persecute him unto death, yet he knew, and would know to his latest breath, that he had both seen a light and heard a voice speaking unto him, and all the world could not make him think or believe otherwise.
25 So it was with me. I had actually seen a light, and in the midst of that light I saw two Personages, and they did in reality speak to me; and though I was hated and persecuted for saying that I had seen a vision, yet it was true; and while they were persecuting me, reviling me, and speaking all manner of evil against me falsely for so saying, I was led to say in my heart: Why persecute me for telling the truth? I have actually seen a vision; and who am I that I can withstand God, or why does the world think to make me deny what I have actually seen? For I had seen a vision; I knew it, and I knew that God knew it, and I could not deny it, neither dared I do it; at least I knew that by so doing I would offend God, and come under condemnation.
FYI, Personage was a common term in the 1820's when you didn't want to say angel or God out of respect.

DU: Stephen looked into HEAVEN and saw Jesus at the right hand of God...

TN: Act 7:55 But he, (Stephen) being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into Heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,

Right, Stephen looked up into heaven and saw Jesus (one personage) standing on the right hand of God (second personage). Yep, two personages.

TN: Act 7:56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God. Acts 7:55, 56

Stephen says I see the heavens opened and I see the Son of Man (first personage) standing on the right hand of God (second personage).

TN: Nope, definitely no the same...

There are none so blind as those who will not see.

TN: Even Joe Smith never said it was the same...

Actually, he did, he talked about his calling as a prophet and spent lots of time telling the story to widely differing groups of people, he talked of God, and Christ and did so in reverential terms. What a load of balderdash to say he didn't say it was God and Christ.

Deny all you want, who else is ever introduced by a heavenly being as "This is my beloved son, hear him." Come on!

IMHO, You just don't want to see.


126 posted on 02/16/2009 4:10:39 PM PST by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
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