Almon W. Babbitt took the letter and left the jail. He handed it to Jones, with directions to take it to Quincy forthwith. The guard being aware of the letter, told the mob that, "old Joe" had sent orders to raise the Nauvoo Legion to come and rescue him. The mob gathered around Jones, and demanded the letter; some of them wanted to take it from him by force, and said that Jones should not get out of Carthage alive, as a dozen men had started off with their rifles to waylay him in the woods. Having previously ordered his horse, Jones took advantage of their disagreement, and started off at full speed. He, by mistake, took the Warsaw road, and so avoided the men who were lying in wait for him. When he emerged on the prairie, he saw the Governor and his posse, whereupon he left the Warsaw road for the Nauvoo road.I assume, the Source of this Quote being the UTLM you will not dispute the error of your statement as evidenced by their site... Since they are anti Mormon as well...
1) The ‘Adam and Eve’ DefenceThis Guy may be a bit nuts, but I like the spunk with which he attacks a thorny issue!
...
One wife was enough for Adam to start with. We don’t know if he took any more wives because the Bible doesn’t say. Another way of looking at it would be to say that in the beginning Adam married every woman that was available. The Bible does not draw a one man/one woman rule from Adam and Eve, so why should we? We could just as easily form a rule to marry all available women, but we would be very busy, and the rule just as valid.
MASS MindReading ALERT!
This is not mind reading, [Dang! ya cudda fooled me!] but you are asserting that a man given a single pistol (a pepperbox) which was designed for self defense as it was not reloadable or reliable is going to break out of a Jail where he is "safe" into the open where a mob of men armed with rifles have been threatening to kill him on sight.
Good to hear you admit that JS had NO chance against the mob, and that he wanted to take out as many as possible if he was 'going as a lamb to the slaughter.'
Channeling for the mob as well as joey now I see.
LOL! Reading comprehension? Joseph never said the Mob was coming to rescue him. Joesph did send a letter to a lawyer, which the Mob sought to take from his messenger by force. Joseph Smith's Death. . . . .
I assume, the Source of this Quote being the UTLM you will not dispute the error of your statement as evidenced by their site... Since they are anti Mormon as well...
Yes DUh, reading comprehension is not your friend. FACT – smith sent orders to the Navuoo legion to rescue him. FACT Smith expected the legion to come.
He was charged with Treason, and with competent representation would have been acquitted, which is one of the reasons the Mob tried to keep his lawyer from visiting him in jail (the link above talks about this, also from the UTLM.
Oh, declaring martial law, ordering the destruction of a news press and organization, you now channel for the judiciary system. LOL, don’t give up your day job Mdn Cleo.
Face it Godzilla, when it comes To Joseph Smith and Nauvoo, a guy who grew up there will know a bit more about it than you will from misreading anti sites. The UTLM, at least has his Martyrdom right, even though they don't call it that.
That is because his was not a martyrdom. But since you believe UTLM on this then:
Joseph Smith's prophecy that he would prevail against his enemies is found in the Nauvoo Neighbor for June 19, 1844:
"I therefore, in behalf of the Municipal Court of Nauvoo, warn the lawless, not to be precipitate in any interference in our affairs, for as sure as there is a God in heaven, WE SHALL RIDE TRIUMPHANT OVER ALL OPPRESSION.
"JOSEPH SMITH, Mayor"
And –
"Because Ford had permitted Joseph to use the debtor's apartment in jail and allowed several of the prophet's friends access to him, it was possible to smuggle messages out of Carthage. Realizing time was precious, Joseph dictated a note to Major General Jonathan Dunham ordering him to call out the Legion and march on the jail immediately. Dunham received the communication in Nauvoo but failed to carry out the command. One of the Legionnaires, Allen Stout, said, 'Dunham did not let a single man or mortal know that he had received such orders and we were kept in the city under arms not knowing but all was well.'" (Orrin Porter Rockwell: Man of God, Son of Thunder, p.130)
Definitely wasn’t a lamb lead to slaughter, but a power-crazed individual who was calling for open war.
Did the Christians in the Lion's den fight for their lives because they would not renounce Jesus? If I am asked by a Muslim if I am a Christian and I say yes even though he has a gun to my head and then I try to take it do I lose my status as a myrter? You place such fine lines on things to try to keep your perspective from crumbling, it's really funny to watch.
Depends upon your definition of a myrter DUh. You point to the difference – the Christians were killed because they would not renounce Christ, joey was not killed for that but for threatening livese the others in the state.
Sigh, the City Council ordered the Destruction of the press, according to the best legal advice they had at their disposal it was legal to do so. Not only was there a three day deliberation, but Mormon presses were routinely destroyed by mobs and anti momrons. Tit for Tat was more common then than now.
The mormon spin, not the whole truth – see thread about lying for the lord.
Mormon writer Kenneth W. Godfrey in discussing factors that stirred the conflict in Illinois wrote:
“Antagonism toward the Mormon Prophet was further incited when it was correctly rumored, that he had been ordained 'King over the Immediate House of Israel' by the Council of Fifty... newspapers and tracts repeatedly charged that the Prophet conducted himself like a dictator and that his actions were not only treasonable but a violation of the constitutional principle that church and state should be disassociated. Thus, his kingly ordination only incensed the populace, and his untimely death became even more inevitable.
The Prophet's mayoral order, with the consent of the city council, to destroy the Nauvoo Expositor . . . . “(Brigham Young University Studies, Winter 1968, pp.212-14). One should also see Sidney’s Salt Sermon as well to see the roots of the disputes.
Joseph's final words were... "Oh Lord, my God!". Also from the UTLM, same article (come on this isn't even fun anymore, can't you get anything right?
Wow, so this a witness, lots of non-religious make the same statement every day, but then mormons grasp at any straw
Yes, he was for if he had recanted his faith they would have let him go.
Take another look at the mormon historian’s note above – he sought (and practiced) dictatorial powers. He was not being the humble man of god.
Joseph knew why he was persecuted. Are you honestly saying that if he had been as you claim a philandering crook and story teller, but had not claimed to restore the church of Jesus Christ to the earth you would be here decrying his name still? Again, you're just not credible, your statements fall of their own weight.
Do they, joey in his letter stated he was in jail on charge of treason (his words), not for his faith. See, lying for the lord causes your arguments to fall on their own weight.
Mormon presses were routinely destroyed by anti Mormons, none of them was sot by a mob of Mormons.
Those presses were not destroyed at the expressed order of the civil authorities (Smith and council), but were the illegal acts of mobs.
Martial law was declared during Hurricane Katrina, among many other times by Government officials, none of them to my knowledge was shot by a mob for it.
Martial law ordered in response to a natural disaster is not the same as martial law ordered to perserve his power base (as in smith’s case) is more like Fidel Castro.
LOL! Do you even know who you are talking to? I count Govoner Boggs (reluctantly) in my pedigree!
You’ve touted that already, poor guy is probably rolling in his grave having you as a descendant.
The Missourians were the murdering thieving lot they killed Mormons by the wagon load, some Mormons got tired of being slaughtered and fought back. It was a war and a war in which My ancestors abused the power of government and violated the Constitution of the United States of America to persicute a religion.
You display no knowledge of the "Mormon Wars". I Know all about them, I grew up in the area, remember? We used to drive around Missouri because the Extermination order was still in effect until about 1972.
Hyperbole – thy name is DUh. Once again, you fail to read the materials you cite from – oh well DUh. FWIW (wiki) states specifically that the mormons were living in peace with their neighbors until smith excommunicated a number of leaders (Cowdrey, Whitmer, Page and others). This was followed by Sidney’s salt sermon and the organzation of the Danites (all while mormon authors say they were at peace with their neighbors). Wiki also states that the mormon milita acted as vigilanties (During the days that followed, Latter-day Saint vigilantes under the direction and encouragement of Lyman Wight drove Missourians who lived in outlying farms from their homes, which were similarly plundered and burned (Thorp, p. 83 and Baugh, p. 91). According to one witness, "We could stand in our door and see houses burning every night for over two weeks... the Mormons completely gutted Daviess County.) and the mormon forces attacked the legally constituted military at Crooked River.
It is so laughable to drive around Missouri too in the 1970s.
GZ We are to identify and judge false teachers and prophets (Mt 24:11, 24; Mk 13:22; Acts 13:6; 2 Pet 2:1).
Very well, I identify you as a false teacher and as a false prophet. Happy?
Trying to deflect the argument by making a personal attack? The subject was smittie. But that said, your judgement is not a righteous judgement, so I’m not worried about it.
First, I did not "improperly use Matt 7:1" you will find that usage common among all Christendom, Second, I am a Christian, Jesus told me so.
Context DUh, and you need your hearing checked. You are not a Christian on the basis of what the Biblical teaches.
Similarly, I believe you think your position is correct, that damning men to hell for following the Bible and the Book of Mormon together is a Christlike endeavor. . . . . .
I only warn that you are about to drive off into the canyon because the bridge is gone. Jesus will do the condemnations
Mt 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
I have judged no man here, I have spoken the word of God as he gives it to me. I have made mistakes and made poor use at times of his word, however, I have never said anyone was damned, nor have I condemned anyone, instead, I invite men to come away from their false beliefs and come unto the light and life that is Christ Jesus. Thus I labor in my poor way for My savior, My Lord, My God.
Disengenous DUh, you just judged me above. You have allied yourself to joseph smith and adored his proclaimations as well as the proclaimations of the mormon church in that Christianity is of the devil – or have you forgotten that portion of the temple endowment ceremony?
Is It OK to marry a second (or third) wife if your first one (or two) gets old? The only reason we even know about "The Ethiopian Woman" is because Miriam (Moses sister) didn't like her and was cursed with Leprosy.
No where in the bible does God allow marrying another polygamously just to have a younger wife. Secondly, you are ignorant of the hebrew used within the context of this time. I’ll let you figure that one out yourself
You know, i don't speak Greek, but I can read. When I go to the Google Search I linked you to, I find all sorts of "Scholars" you claim don't exist debating the meaning of Mia Gune. . . . .
A google search – ah excellent scholorship. But you apparently don’t want to go to detailed sources or established scholarship for your reading – must still be spending too much time slumming on UFO sites.
Husbandofonewife.pdf
I refuted his interpretations in the prior post.
One Wife In Timothy 3 and Titus 1
States absolutely nothing in the context of polygamy – don’t you bother to really read the articles you link to? The discussion involves divorce. However, the article is clear that the man is married to only one woman.
One of my favorite pages, this Guy is not a Momron, but as a "Christain", he makes us look pretty tame Objections to Polygamy from Christians
So the guy has an opinion as his “adam and eve” argument shows. Not one shread of support from the bible – so the guy thinks his opinion is equal to the bible aparently. However, this citation makes it clear that you REALLY don’t bother to read your sources
I think it’s interesting that Mormons originally accepted polygamy, and that the “official” Mormon organisation has since claimed a new revelation that considerably restricts its practice. This coincides with the Mormon organisation now being recognised rather than persecuted in the United States, and it coincides with Utah actually having statehood. It appears that the adjustments to the teachings of the organisation, and the fact that no-one on earth today is authorised by the largest Mormon donomination to be polygamous, are part of a deal. The teaching and the freedom to practice is sacrificed in order to obtain political recognition.
Joseph Smith was right to see the polygamy in the Bible - he could read too - and well within his rights to show the hypocrisy of those who claim to follow the Bible but abandon the inconvenient bits. Because the Mormon organisation took the freedom of polygamy that is found in the Bible and threw it away, I think that gives us grounds to question the teachings of that organisation, and any organisation that claims to be a church but doesn’t follow the Word of God when it becomes too difficult. In any case,this site is not talking about Mormon polygamy, but about any polygamy. Mormon polygamy was a requirement for Mormon salvation, and linked to the doctrine of celestial marriages that were supposed to last after death. This site is more concerned with allowing than requiring polygamy, and only in this life, not the next.
Gee, guess he has a high view of mormonism too.
I'm So happy you have put this issue to rest, I mean now that the Great Godzilla (A Greek Speaking Dinasaur) has spoken, who could possibly have anything more to say (chuckle)
I’ve gone over this with you in the past. You’ve chosen to ignore valid greek translation methodology in order to obfuscate the issue. If you are such a proponent of polygamy, go join your FLDS mormon bretheren.
Godzilla, Paul was an educated man, please explain why he did this: 1 timothy 3:1-7 It's good to desire to be a bishop. We interrupt this listing of qualifications to make a doctrinal statement, "Polygamy is wrong." Carry on with listing of Qualifications for Bishops.
Mormons made polygamy a matter of doctrine, not Christianity DUh. The listing of qualifications are character identifiers, how the individual behaives in these areas reflect on their walk with Christ. A component of this is the man’s marital status, as well as the related issues of how he manages his home and family. Paul was reinforcing the Biblical principle of monogamy.
I think Context is an important thing, and "in context" your interpretation is just silly.
Yes, too bad you are so lame when you try to place things into context and only thing silly are your strawmen.