They were never placed in a hat to interpret a non-existent set of golden plates. The were also not used by Israel to hunt buried treasures across the countryside.
Neither do I deny that Joseph smith was taken to court (Yet another straw man?) Let me make this easy for you Joseph Smith was taken to court many times in his life time, 1826 was one such time he was charged by those opposed to his religious views with something to make him look bad. It's an old old trick used by Satan many times...
There is absolutely nothing in any record which links his arrest and trial in 1826 to his religious views. According to mornonite history, he didn’t receive the plates until 1827 after using the seer stone..
FYI, Jesus was taken to Court, Tried and Convicted, so?
Smith was an occultist, not the Son of God.
Oliver Cowdry confirms that Joseph was taken to court, So? We don't deny that. As for the Questionable nature of the evidence,
Wow, a big change in your song DU, may be a two note johnnie now.
Godzilla, I have been, and still am asserting that you Ignore counter evidence, and therefore IMHO, you are not credible.
DU, du, du, as stated from your link - Scholars are expected to examine all of the evidence and come to a conclusion. Thus, a one-sided lack of objectivity is a cardinal scholarly sin. This is why scholars should listen to others in their field even when—in fact, especially when—they disagree. It is only when scholars have heard and weighed all of the evidence, and considered all of the arguments, that they can come to an objective conclusion.
I have not denied there is a rock with writing in NM that is in a foreign language. However, I have shown that there is substantial other data and interpretation that does not support your little interpretation. I have fulfilled the criteria noted, you refuse to address the other evidence, only doing your little one note Johnny routine. Nib’s and FARMS agree with me for once (well they are like a broken clock, correct twice a day). Your supplemental support again goes to UFO sites, how credible does that make you LOL>
I am going to skip a bunch of your quotation, and just link to the source<--SNip-->
Lurkers will note here that DU practices what he earlier vilified me for – cutting up my posts.
LOL! Have you not been arguing that absence of evidence is evidence of absence? LOL, Now you want to flip your whole argument around? This is funny, I'm pulling a link from this post to my cache!
Except when the contrary evidence is overwhelming and to the contrary.
Lets assume for a moment that I came up with a document, say from professor Anthon that had been torn from his ledger, brought to Utah, kept secret until the person who tore it out of his ledger died, published it and had images of it posted, the4n claimed the original was now lost without any forensic analysis being done to authenticate it and I wanted wanted to use this document in our debate... Is there anyone here who actually thinks you would allow this document to be entered into evidence without a complaint? ROTFLOL!
When you prove that the document has been forged, then you can make the claim. Current evidence still indicates it is a valid document
Now for the "nothing has been proven to be tampered with" logic, LOL! You have not proven that the Los Lunas stone was tampered with, and you have not proven that the Book of Mormon is not true...
And neither can you show that it wasn’t tampered with. Those who have the knowledge and capabilities to evaluate the stone have shown it to be discredited and a fraud, including lds inc. Lessee, where are the armor, cities, an advanced metallurgical culture in pre colombinan America, since your prophets and teachings show the lands were all over the hemisphere and the Amerindians descended from Lehi and Abraham.
Stick with debating people who don't (or can't) read the actual sources. Or better, stay with those who already agree with you and will not question your sources or your methodology. (advice goes both ways)
DU, the world would not have realized that you slum around UFO websites for mormon faith enhancement if I hadn’t read your sources. Apart from your flawed attempts to use the Sorenson Labs website to prove the bom while ignoring all the other independent studies - well lurkers, have his responses been that of reading my sources or relying upon mormon echo chamber apologists for your faith enhancement and listening to their lies about what your prophets and church have taught for the last 150+ years.
Again, take your own advice, the charge as issued by the UTLM is that Ron Jackson altered the Bill to be a charge against Josiah Stowell, not Joseph Smith, the alleged alteration was not a signature.
Jackson’s assertion was that the bill with Smith’s name was the forgery, it turns out the one he produced was the forgery. BTW, concerning authencity issues, the back of the UTLM document is a certificate of authencity- fancy that
The Book of Mormon was never claimed to be a work of fiction.
No, smith wasn’t that stupid. But that doesn’t change the facts – it is a work of fiction – an interpretation that is also shared by BH Roberts.
I personally (as a capitalist) am a treasure seeking individual, and as a follower of Jesus Christ, I am also seeking to lay up treasures in heaven. "Treasure Seeking" is not, nor was it then a crime.
Yet the bill clearly states – The Glass Looker – as cause.
"Treasure seeking" was not a crime.
Swindling an old man claiming to have occultic powers to see and find buried treasure is
Unfortunately for you, the facts of the matter are the DNA of American Indians cannot disprove the Book of Mormon, Slanders against Joseph Smith cannot disprove the Book of Mormon, indeed casting aspersions on archeological evidence that supports the Book of Mormon cannot disprove it.
Then you continue to call smith a liar in regards to the origins of the Amerindians. Proof of an arrest and trial (which you now say happened) is not slander, the fact that he was an occultic divinatiator in 1826 – six years after he alledgedly saw God face to face is kinda hard to face isn’t it DUh?
The Book of Mormon was indeed translated by Joseph Smith from an Ancient record of a God fearing people on this the American Continent,
And the Amerindians are the descendants of Lehi, by the hand of that same Smith
Jesus Christ did in very fact visit with them, and bring his Gospel to these "Other Sheep" as spoken of in the Bible
So show me the cities? Where are they? Where is the evidence of a Jewish/Christian culture in the so-called midst of all these heathen (who possessed a substantial culture and writing of their own).
and The Church of Jesus Christ is the Modern Church restored as the prophesied int eh Bible in these the latter days.
From a false prophet – how many prophecies did not come to pass from this guy???
Joseph Smith sealed his testimony with his blood as the Bible requires and you cannot disprove it.
LOL, now smitty is the equivalent of Jesus Christ – whom Heb 9:16 is referring too. That is at best blasphemous and at worst a deliberate lie.
And in conclusion DU has to pucker up his testimony. A common response when all else has failed. It is a common practice in conjunction with Ignoring the Counterevidence.
