They claim the Bible to be their standard, their example, & yet do we find such practices in the Bible? For example, did the Apostles spend MOST of their time teaching the gospel, exhorting all to come unto Christ, or did they spend MOST of their time bashing the Pharisees, Sadducee's, etc.?
I can fully understand that there are those that have differences w/ us here, we are talking about religion after all. But if one were to go & look at the posting histories of most of the anti’s, one would find a large percentage of their posts bashing Mormons on threads like this & a smaller percentage, if any at all, actually proclaiming the gospel as they know it. In fact I've noticed threads dealing w/ Christianity bashing where these anti’s are nowhere to be found. But they are always found here.
Makes one wonder where their priorities are, what their real agenda is, what their lives are really about. Makes one wonder what their true motives are, Christ's work, or just Mormon bashing. Of course, they will claim that the bashing in abundance IS the Lord's work. I don't find any justification for that in the Bible. In fact, quite the opposite.
I feel quite certain a rash of flame posts are soon to follow this post. I haven't posted lately due to an enormous work load. I just flat out don't have the time right now to answer the flames that always follow, especially considering the amount of time it takes to answer the flames. I would stay up late, as I do in other arenas, to have a reasoned discussion w/ these folks, however that has proven to be a fruitless venture here.It's often not about right or wrong, but about winning.
I appreciate the time you do have & spend here. It's a good work you do despite the vitriol returned. My best to you as well as the others here (anti’s included). Have a great weekend.
No flames here - not even bashing mormons (well except ol’ Joey boy - and some days, Brigham Young...)
But attacking the not so fine points of mormon doctrine - you bet!
In a broader sense, it is within the parameters of the topic. So we take issues with the specifics of DNA and how the church and apologists in general pursue and represent thier findings.
We take issue with the specifics of Joseph Smith’s character as it relates to his suitability to be considered a prophet of G_d by anybody, his truthfulness, his behaviour towards mormons, non-mormons, and mormons departing from the “high and Joseph” path.
We take issue with the conflict and contradictions of details among the nine known versions of Smith’s alleged two visions or visitations...because the veracity of those visions - or lack thereof - goes directly to the heart of whether DNA even matters.
In other words if it appears that there are too many discrepancies (as we insist there are), too many unexplainable and/or irresolvable contradictions, or variances in critical details from one known account to another - then we make it our business to call attention to those and when the vastness of them seems insurmountable, and the evidence against ANY of them being true seems to meet the standards of reasonable doubt or preponderance of the evidence if you prefer - then we look at the stories and cry “Foul”.
If the stories cannot be reconciled - then it is pointless to try to find empirical evidence to prop them up. It would be like my earlier example of trying to build a religion around the Lord of the Rings, and then seek DNA or archaeological artifacts to reconstruct a society that only ever existed in the mide of John Ronald Reuel Tolkien.
Or in this case, Joseph Smith and the known contemporary and older fictional sources he plagiarized.
See - I did all of that without personal attacks, name calling or other crud.
A.A.C.
It's more fun!!
Just to see 'em spin and squirm when presented with FACTS about their history and FACTUAL things their old leaders have said...
Beats most any other form of entertainment around!
Would the definition of a "reasoned discussion" be for you to be allowed to present any and all mormon tenets without any rebuttal to such claims?
I direct you to my post HERE in which I note that your contribution to the thread consists of nothing but flaming non-mormons, and post #341 is a continuation of complaints, pointing fingers, whining and passing judgement because we have the temerity to challenge the lies of Joseph Smith.
Your post, like many similar ones is what drives me to many of these threads. I just love the combination or “woe is us poor victims” combined with the whole patronizing arrogance bit. Arrogant victimhood I guess I should call it.
Anyways, enough of that and on to the initial point of your post.
Why we do this and shouldn’t we be doing something else with our time.
There are a couple of issues to address.
First you assume we don’t witness for our faith. Just because you don’t see it here does not mean we don’t do it. Also you cannot make such a broad statement for I am sure you do not go and track down every post all of us so called “antis” make.
Secondly, what we do in defending our faith is required of us. I will not bore you with passages and admonitions you have heard dozens of times, but we as Christians are charged to root out false teachings and expose them. It is a sad commentary that, especially in America, we as Christians no longer do this as often as we should. The desire to get along and be “politically correct” has weakened the Christian Soldier, allowed ideas such as homosexuality and abortion to seep in, allowed the once intolerable to be tolerated. I also find your term "bashing" to be used by a host of others when such efforts are made by us today. I can see why one would feel that way, being shown a "truth" or practice that you had followed for many years was wrong would seem to be an "attack" I guess.
Anyways, that is the main issue isn’t it. See unlike the debates between we Christians and our Jewish friends or arguments between our faith and the Muslims, the defense against the teachings of Smith have a special significance, one that would be true of any “faith” that seeks to be a derivative of Christ’s true intent.
You see Muslims don’t come along and say “to see the glory in heaven, seek to fulfill the task Allah sets out for you, kill the infidel and accept Jesus Christ as your savior, then you shall receive your reward and 72 virgins”. Muslims don’t place crosses next to the star and crescent and do other things that would try and blend our faith into theirs. Muslims are Muslims, and have their own unique identity.
No so the LDS. While being a wholly separate movement from that of the true body of Christ, they “borrow” (polite term for steal) many elements from his teachings and the word of God to make something new. Indeed it has been somewhat humorous as I studied the faith how much effort was initially made to be “separate” from Historic Christianity and how an almost equally sizeable effort is now being made to “look Christian” in today’s world (I will grant the LDS understand marketing).
But you see under all the rhetoric and PR campaigns, the LDS is a totally different creature than the true church their “namesake” actually created. And this is why it is imperative to confront the LDS.
Let me give you an analog as a demonstration.
Let us say that Scientology actually referred to itself as “The Church of Scientology of Jesus Christ of Last Week”. Let us assume that their Bio Feedback centers carried the cross and the path of salvation consisted of “First one should achieve self realization and purging of toxins, come to believe in Christ as your savior, and upon death, with the approval of Xenu, your essence shall be whisked to the heavens in a DC8 Starship”. Furthermore they openly discuss an odd mix of new age ideas and Christian dogma and call them self both Christian and Scientologist who feel Dianetics is modern scripture for the new millennium and equal to the Bible.
A casual lurker, a pilgrim on his path to the truth may stop by a CSJCLW Treatment center, hear the ideas and dogma of the “Scitochristians”, see the cross and think “wow what a bunch of nut jobs the “Christ followers” are, and leaves. The next Church he comes across is Methodist, with a similar cross and bearing the words of “Jesus”. Well I bet he moves on. Nuts of another name, that is all that he thinks.
So yes we will fight for what is ours, and the true nature of Christ belongs to all those who have carried the tradition lo these past 2000 years in his name. And you will seek to divide us and talk down to us for those are the tools the evil one uses, and we will fight back in the true name of Christ. In the end the brotherhood of Christians, no matter our denominations, no matter our various methods and procedures, all emanate for a core simple truth, there is but one God, one Savior and one path, that belief in Christ and acceptance of his love and grace shall save us for eternity.
Here’s what I don’t get about these anti folks. They claim to be “Christian” & witnesses for Christ, & yet for most of them, how much time do they spend here doing witnessing rather than bashing the LDS? They have this global forum here, & how do they spend MOST of their time? Bashing Mormons.
Actuallty, most of my posts are witnessing, particularly to Mormons. I am not “anti” mormon. I love them so much I want them to know the real Christ and the joy of Salvation (exaltation) by Grace alone.
I love mormons, its their theology that makes me sick (It makes God sick too).