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Nahhhh

We have NAUGHT to repent of and we are all quite happy in attacking and dissassembling the plagiarism and fiction, the anaethema and blasphemous joke that is the bom/pogp/d and c...in short ALMOST ALL that is mormon doctrine.

Not necessarily (all of) today’s mormons as individuals - but mormonism - absolutely.

Nascent mormonism in 1830, polygamy-era mormonism from the 1840s or 1850s on until several years after Utah had been granted statehood, “reformed mormonism” that fervently hoped for Indians and black people to progressively have lighter and lighter skin as they drew nearer to the mormon god - until of course a “revelation” from a “living prophet” showed that SHAZZAM!! the mormon god had changed his mind after all.

(Guess that the darker skin WASN’T really his “mark of Cain” curse after all...so ol’ shyster Joe, the racist treasure-seeker and spirit medium, and all the subsequent alleged “living prophets” must not have been so prophetically accurate after all. Which is to say simply - none of them then could have actually been prophets! One hundred percent accuracy being the never-superseded OT mandate, and all...)

What is really sad, is that the First Council of Nicea failed to fully extinguish the heresy of Arianism, and so it survived with the Goths until the adherents were either converted to the truth of Christ, or killed, and that Gnosticism continued to prosper, notwithstanding the Apostle Paul’s learned efforts, and that though stone-cold dead at times, these heresies somehow managed to be revived and rolled all into one funky little package of fiction.

Knock knock - special delivery from Satan!

Little Joe had one of two problems going on when he was visited by the two personages:

One - he failed utterly to challenge the two of them to identify themselves, and whom they were aligned with. He did not “test every Spirit” as the Bible commanded. (of course maybe that part was not “correctly translated...) and so those Spirits had full latitude and every right to deceive him as much as they obviously did...

Satan is, after all, the “Prince of the power of the air” and was understood by men of G_d to have the ability to appear as a being of pure light; he was given power to deceive many...

or Two - Joe had more than a “pretty good” idea who the two might be - having had far more than passing involvement with necromancy (forbidden explicitly by the Lord), consulting with spirit mediums (again, forbidden expressly by the MOST HIGH), and therefore he had no interest in challenging their alliance.

Then again, telling such a long string of tales, whoppers, prevarications and outright heinous lies could easily confuse even a prodigious intellect into eventually tripping up on the tangled webstrands of his own practiced deceptions.

Smith was no different. How else can one explain that he repeatedly in the early days referred to the (second vision) “angel of the Lord” as Nephi, not Moroni?

I mean, the 1839 “History” of the church, dictated by Smith himself, states that the angel was “Nephi” not “Moroni” - and although mormons have repeatedly asserted that this was a “scribal error” - the simple fact is that Smith had plenty of time to correct this error and never did. It was repeated in “Times and Seasons” (1842) a reprint of the 1839 “History”.

Granted the way in which they try to explain it is by citing D & C, section 50 (1835) This revelation was received in 1830 and does mention “Moroni” - so the argument goes that Moroni was obviously known as the angel’s name all the way back in 1830.

BUT what today’s mormons DO NOT APPEAR TO KNOW is that when the revelation was originally given in 1830, and printed in the “Book of Commandments” as section 28 (1833) - - -

IT CONTAINED NO REFERENCE TO MORONI! This name was stuck in later.

This can be verified. Examine copies of the original revelation in “The Book of Commandments” in the non-LDS periodical, “The Telegraph” (Painesville, Ohio - April 19, 1831) and LDS publication “The Evening and Morning Star” (March 1833)

Also check into “The Joseph Smith Revelations, Text and Commentary” (H. Michael Marquardt) pages 72 through 75.

In Smith’s 1832 account it was an unidentified “angel of the Lord” that shares the news about plates “engraven by Moroni”

Obviously if the angel spoke ABOUT Moroni, he himself could NOT have been Moroni...notice please that the angel did not say “engravings which was engraven by me”, nor “I, Moroni, engraved these plates.”

Maybe this was no error on Smith’s part, but was instead related to the occult beliefs that were part and parcel of Joe’s ststem of theology at the time.

According to S. Michael Quinn,, the name “Nephi” is closely tied to various generic terms used by 19th century occultists for spirit messengers - called out by Magicians and Necromancers.

This would not be at all inconcistent with Smith later using the “seer-stone” in his hat - just as he had while conducting one of his many “treasure seeking” excursions...

Of course, that is just one thread of facts, relating to one version of the source and specifics of Smith’s revelation - and as is well known, there are not less than nine widely publicized versions.

Problem is, these cited publications cannot be retroactively unpublished/unprinted, nor can all the extant copies in various archives be eradicated and removed from public availability.

They’re out there, they chronicle the variances in what Smith said at different times, and just as the consistencies among various scrolls (Masoretic texts, Dead Sea Scrolls and many others) which differ vastly in known age uphold the consistency and accuracy of the Bible, and the singularly divine imprimatur thereto - so also do the manifold inconsistencies, contradictions, errors of zoology, biology, geography, anthropology, etc...impugn the authorship of the bom, pogp, D & C - as flawed, human, borrowed from not less than five different sources (including the original, best, and only acceptable Holy Bible).

That author, that plagiarist, the one who assimilated those divergent materials and melded them into the abomination of mormon doctrines - was Joseph Smith - a pretender to the sacred mantle of being a prophet of G_d.

G_d names and anoints His prophets, they do not name nor anoint themselves. Smith is no more a prophet of the one true G_d than Muhammad was.

He was no more a righteous, holy and just man, than I am the reincarnation of Julius Caesar.

He was a profligate, a thief, a convicted liar, a heretic, a cuckolder of his fellow men, a worm - guilty at least of attempted murder during his armed jailbreak, (whether he may have been a successful murderer is lost to history for now), and a hypocrite who used both tobacco and alcohol on at least a semi-regular basis even as he took up the pious banner of lecturing others on the virtue of temperance and teetotalling.

I myself drink on an itinerant basis at most; I do not need alcohol, but I do enjoy it from time to time, and I am not ashamed to partake - most especially not at the Lord’s Eucharist, taking wine and bread (as opposed to the meaningless and Spirit-less water and bread counterfeit). I have never been drunk in my life.

I also do not choose to smoke cigarettes, but I like a good Cuban cigar now and again.

I like a cup of coffee or two on a regular basis - one to three times a week. I enjoy my soda pop - caffeinated or non - anytime.

So then, just to be clear, I am not a hypocrite who postures himself one way, speaks another, and behaves in the end, yet another way.

Moderation in all things. I do not see in the Holy Bible where the Lord himself would condemn me for those choices, so I am quite certain that Joe Smith’s thoughts or words on the subject are of no weight whatsoever with Jesus.

Just as it was long before the accursed and hell-bound theology and doctrines of mormonism ever coalesced into existence, and began co-opting the real Jesus and attributing words to Him which He never spoke.

I get into heaven - the real, true, one and only heaven - on the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the cleansing blood he shed on the Cross. Nothing else whatsoever. He washed away ALL my iniquities - and all those of any and every brother and sister who believe and humbly call upon His name, for “There is no other name given under heaven by which men may be saved”

Yes, the Bible was compiled and translated by the “Catholic Church” - at that time there was not Roman or other - just Catholic, meaning “universal”, of course.

Yes there came later differences in what Protestants accepted as canon and what Eastern/Roman Catholics accepted as canon. But if you examine the nine additional books closely, it is evident that they change in no way whatsoever the picture that the remainder of accepted OT books paint of the character and nature of G_d, the manner of his dealings with Israel, or the types of people He chooses as His servants. Yes there came schism in 1054 between the Eastern and Roman rites - in summary, the sad culmination of a series of banns published by bishops against one another.

Resolution of those issues is being worked upon diligently even now between Metropolitan and Pope, Bishops and Cardinals.

But fundamentally, despite all the differences accumulated over centuries of Satan making concerted efforts to infiltrate and pervert and destroy the church (Protestant and Catholic alike), to advance the agendas of men rather than of G_d, we agree on the most basic of matters regarding the nature of G_d, of Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit which proceeds from them...

We know who our Lord is, and that the trinity is not some vain imagining, but reality supported by an honest look at the Bible - as opposed to the desperate parsing of every other word employed by Arianist would-be scholars attempting to justify their deviance and deception.

Protestant and Catholic faithful alike will enter heaven in great droves - granted entrance solely on the basis of their repentance of sins, acceptance of Christ and His forgiveness into their hearts and choosing to be born again.

And there is not a damned thing that the puffed-up braggart, Joseph Smith, can say or do about it.

A.A.C.

Bump! Great post.

MOSES DU PRATZ
Author of
History of Louisiana, written about 1730.
Star of the West, P 133.

Natchez named for tribe of Indians of that name. Boutinot makes much of “O-E-A” or Yo-he-vah (as does Ethan Smith) see Star of the West, P 178 et sq.
“Much is to be done who when the signal is set up among the nations; and these children of God’s watch, free providence, shall be manifestly discovered, i.e. lost tribes they are to be converted to the faith of Christ, & instructed in their religious prerogatives, and prepared and assisted to return to their own land & their ancient city, even the city of Zion, which shall become a praise to all the earth.… Who knows but God has raised up these U.S. in these last days for the very purpose of accomplishing his will in bringing his beloved people to their own land.”

Star of the West, P 297.

The View of the Hebrews

(18) Quetzalcotle (So often called in literature “The Mexican Messiah”):
The legends of Quetzalcotle are stated in the “View of the Hebrews” at some length, I greatly abbreviate. “The pyramids of Cholula was an altar dedicated to Quetzalcotle or the serpent of green feathers; as his name is said to imply. This is the most mysterious being of the whole Mexican mythology. He is said to be a white and bearded man. He was High Priest of Tula, legislator, chief of a religious sect, who inflicted on themselves the most cruel penance—”he appeased by his pennance divine wrath, (In other words atonement).—The reign of Quetzalcotle was a golden age of the people of Anahuac, he dwelt twenty years among them, ordered fasts and regulated the Taltic year. “He preached peace to men”- - -He disappeared after he had declared to the Cholulans that he would return and govern them again and renew their happiness.”
Ethan Smith speaks of him as “appeasing divine wrath,” “may have a striking allusion to the system of the Mosaic sacrifices including also the mediation of Moses, as a type of Christ, and God’s turning away his fierce wrath from Israel at his intercession as was repeatedly the case. (Ethan Smith “View of the Hebrews” pp. 206—)

The legitimate query: did this character spoken of in the “View of the Hebrews,” published five years before the Book of Mormon, furnish the suggestion of the Christ on the Western Continent?

The Book of Mormon

(18) The Messiah on the Western Continent:
It may be said that the chief event, the greatest and most important of all events in the Book of Mormon, is the appearance of the Christ—the Hebrew Messiah—in the western world. He was anticipated in prophecy, and spoken of in expectation of His coming, and the purpose of that coming. Finally, in third Nephi, a magnificent description of His appearing to the Nephites is given, an account of His ministry among the Nephites. His stay was comparatively brief, and when he departed in light and glory, He promised at some future time to return. (See III Nephi ch. 11 et sq.

(From “Studies of the Book of Mormon” by Brigham H Roberts,)

Nana’s Note...Ethan Smith, The man who wrote A View of the Hebrews was also the pastor of the church that Oliver Cowdery, and his family attended, DURING THE TIME OF THE PUBLICATION OF THE BOOK..

Oliver Cowdery was later one of the scribes for the book of mormon and became a extremely close and trusted buddy to Joey Smith within weeks of their meeting...

To the point that within one month of the start of their early acquaintance, Joey Smith wrote Chapter VII 1-5 of the Book of Commandments, which later became D&C 8:1-12, just for Oliver...telling him he could have anything he wanted...Hardly the type of thing that Joey Smith would have promised someone who was not of great use to him...but just an example of how people were manipulated by the conman, Joet Smith...
____________________________________________________

Book of Commandments Chapter VII

A Revelation given to Oliver, in Harmony, Pennsylvania, April, 1829.

7:1 Oliver, verily, verily I say unto you, that assuredly as the Lord liveth, which is your God and your Redeemer, even so sure shall you receive a knowledge of whatsoever things you shall ask in faith, with and honest heart, believing that you shall receive a knowledge concerning the engravings of old records, which are ancient, which contain those parts of my scripture of which have been spoken, by the manifestation of my Spirit; yea, behold I will tell you in your mind and in your heart by the Holy Ghost, which shall come upon you and which shall dwell in your heart.

7:2 Now, behold this is the Spirit of revelation:—behold this is the Spirit by which Moses brought the children of Israel through the Red sea on dry ground: therefore, this is thy gift; apply unto it and blessed art thou, for it shall deliver you out of the hands of your enemies, when, if it were not so, they would slay you and bring your soul to destruction.

7:3 O remember, these words and keep my commandments. Remember this is your gift. Now this is not all, for you have another gift, which is the gift of working with the rod: behold it has told you things: behold there is no other power save God, that can cause this rod of nature, to work in your hands, for it is the work of God; and therefore whatsoever you shall ask me to tell you by that means, that will I grant unto you, that you shall know.

7:4 Remember that without faith you can do nothing. Trifle not with these things. Do not ask for that which you ought not. Ask that you may know the mysteries of God, and that you may translate all those ancient records, which have been hid up, which are sacred, and according to your faith shall it be done unto you.

7:5 Behold it is I that have spoken it, I am the same which spake unto you from the beginning:—Amen.
_________________________________________________

Doctrine and Covenants Section 8

Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet to Oliver Cowdery, at Harmony, Pennsylvania, April 1829. HC 1:36-37. In the course of the translation of the Book of Mormon, Oliver, who continued to serve as scribe, writing at the Prophet’s dictation, desired to be endowed with the gift of translation. The Lord responded to his supplication by granting this revelation.

8:1 Oliver Cowdery, verily, verily, I say unto you, that assuredly as the Lord liveth, who is your God and your Redeemer, even so surely shall you receive a knowledge of whatsoever things you shall ask in faith, with an honest heart, believing that you shall receive a knowledge concerning the engravings of old records, which are ancient, which contain those parts of my scripture of which has been spoken by the manifestation of my Spirit.

8:2 Yea, behold, I will tell you in your mind and in your heart, by the Holy Ghost, which shall come upon you and which shall dwell in your heart.

8:3 Now, behold, this is the spirit of revelation; behold, this is the spirit by which Moses brought the children of Israel through the Red Sea on dry ground.

8:4 Therefore this is thy gift; apply unto it, and blessed art thou, for it shall deliver you out of the hands of your enemies, when, if it were not so, they would slay you and bring your soul to destruction.

8:5 Oh, remember these words, and keep my commandments. Remember, this is your gift.

8:6 Now this is not all thy gift; for you have another gift, which is the gift of Aaron; behold, it has told you many things;

8:7 Behold, there is no other power, save the power of God, that can cause this gift of Aaron to be with you.

8:8 Therefore, doubt not, for it is the gift of God; and you shall hold it in your hands, and do marvelous works; and no power shall be able to take it away out of your hands, for it is the work of God.

8:9 And, therefore, whatsoever you shall ask me to tell you by that means, that will I grant unto you, and you shall have knowledge concerning it.

8:10 Remember that without faith you can do nothing; therefore ask in faith. Trifle not with these things; do not ask for that which you ought not.

8:11 Ask that you may know the mysteries of God, and that you may translate and receive knowledge from all those ancient records which have been hid up, that are sacred; and according to your faith shall it be done unto you.

8:12 Behold, it is I that have spoken it; and I am the same that spake unto you from the beginning. Amen.
__________________________________________________

RLDS Version -

D&C SECTION 8 (Also Book of Commandments Chapter VII 1-7)

Revelation given through Joseph Smith, Jr., to Oliver Cowdery, April 1829, at Harmony, Pennsylvania. It was occasioned by Oliver’s questions and concerns as he entered into more intimate association with Joseph during this first month of their acquaintance.

[Sec 8:1a] Oliver Cowdery, verily, verily I say unto you, that assuredly as the Lord liveth, who is your God and your Redeemer,

[Sec 8:1b] even so sure shall you receive a knowledge of whatsoever things you shall ask in faith, with an honest heart, believing that you shall receive a knowledge concerning the engravings of old records, which are ancient, which contain those parts of my scripture of which have been spoken, by the manifestation of my Spirit;

[Sec 8:1c] yea, behold, I will tell you in your mind and in your heart by the Holy Ghost, which shall come upon you, and which shall dwell in your heart.

[Sec 8:2a] Now, behold, this is the spirit of revelation; behold, this is the Spirit by which Moses brought the children of Israel through the Red Sea on dry ground;

[Sec 8:2b] therefore this is thy gift; apply unto it and blessed art thou, for it shall deliver you out of the hands of your enemies, when, if it were not so, they would slay you, and bring your soul to destruction.

[Sec 8:3a] Oh, remember these words, and keep my commandments! Remember this is your gift.

[Sec 8:3b] Now this is not all your gift, for you have another gift, which is the gift of Aaron; behold, it has told you many things; behold, there is no other power save the power of God that can cause this gift of Aaron to be with you;

[Sec 8:3c] therefore doubt not, for it is the gift of God, and you shall hold it in your hands, and do marvelous works; and no power shall be able to take it away out of your hands, for it is the work of God.

[Sec 8:3d] And, therefore, whatsoever you shall ask me to tell you by that means, that will I grant unto you, and you shall have knowledge concerning it; remember, that without faith you can do nothing.

[Sec 8:3e] Therefore, ask in faith.

[Sec 8:3f] Trifle not with these things; do not ask for that which you ought not; ask that you may know the mysteries of God, and that you may translate and receive knowledge from all those ancient records which have been hid up, that are sacred, and according to your faith shall it be done unto you.

[Sec 8:3g] Behold, it is I that have spoken it; and I am the same who spake unto you from the beginning. Amen.

Another excellent post AAC!

Nahhhh

We have NAUGHT to repent of and we are all quite happy in attacking and dissassembling the plagiarism and fiction, the anaethema and blasphemous joke that is the bom/pogp/d and c...in short ALMOST ALL that is mormon doctrine.

WOW! Wat a compelling um... oratory; Do you write for Mr. Obama?

As for the rest of your , speech, it's all been discussed before, and refuted before, but it's off topic. I'll tell you what, start a thread with a topic that is defined (like DNA evidence) and I'll be right over when the Anti Mormons here get tired of me punting them over the goal posts. Otherwise you off topic person you, get on topic, so do you agree with Godzilla that Moroni was saying he was a descendant of Nephi when saying he was a pure descendant of Lehi (no Lamanite blood) even though Laman was Nephi's brother or do you accept the (obvious) conclusion that there were many who were not "pure descendants of Lehi" which means there was no pure sample for DNA analysis to look for.

Why don't you watch some video's and learn some about the Topic!

part 1 The Book of Mormon and New World DNA
part 2 The Book of Mormon and New World DNA
Part 3 The Book of Mormon and New World DNA
I should probably warn people coming to this thread:

After you learn a bit about DNA evidence, maybe we can come to a Compromise: