Posted on 02/14/2009 6:41:48 PM PST by restornu
Yup: she RENOUNCED MORMONism and will tell ANYONE what is WRONG with it!
You, Resty, have RENOUNCED Presbyterianism and will tell NO one what you found wrong with it.
(Or even what Joseph Smith claimed to have LEARNED was UNTRUE about it.)
No problem: she's MORMON.
Then, using the premise put forward in the article, I can post for NO Hebrew DNA has been found in MY genes!
Remember...
'Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.'
They learn and evolve...
Caucus threads are closed to any poster who is not a member of the caucus.
BOO HOO!
Looks like you got slapped into an OPEN category...
AGAIN!
****
Thank you It was me who Open the thread!
To: All
The thread has been changed to open at the posters request.
44 posted on Monday, February 16, 2009 12:55:41 AM by Religion Moderator
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies | Report Abuse]
Why should they?
You will not 'share' the UNTRUTHs of PRESBYTERINAism - but then - neither did Joseph Smith.
The thread has been changed to open at the posters request.
I got here at just the right time! ;^)
Looks like I pre-judged the results.
Thanks for asking the RM to fix the thread so I can post here.
Yup; I found that out.
Looks like you got slapped into an OPEN category...
Looks like I pre-judged the results.
Thanks for asking the RM to fix the thread so I can post here.
***
Thank you for your gracious acknowledgment
I have better things to do than argue with you. I gave you information, all of which can be found quite easily on the web. If you have any interest in looking for it, you know have enough information to google it and find it. If you prefer to keep believing in fairy tales, without ever searching for the truth, that’s your choice also.
It’s time to update my tagline, even though I love my present one.
You keep saying this, I have no idea what Restornu found wrong with being a Presbyterian, or for that matter that anything was wrong, she may have just found more in the LDS church
He does not know either but it seems to makes good fodder for Elsie!
"I'm sure you can find evidence to support what I said (even though I can't be bothered to) don't you care about supporting my argument more than I do?"If you have any interest in looking for it, you know have enough information to google it and find it.
Does DNA from Indians prove anything about the Book of Mormon?
Lets look at some claims from DNA "Experts" then we'll talk about why they got what they Got when they did their research: From Take a Stand ministriesThe research shows that 96.5% of them show an Asian originFrom When DNA Evidence is Ignored: Systematic Bias Against Non-Asian Origins of Ancient Americans When DNA evidence is ignoredIt is wrong to say that there has been no DNA evidence pointing to non-Asian (e.g., European or Middle East) origins of ancient Native Americans. But some of the possible evidence has routinely been discarded and ignored.There are also lots of people claiming a the Halpotypes from central Siberia prove the Indians came from there, why so many "Sources" for Indian DNA?
The answer is simple, in a genetically promiscuous group (People who will reproduce with people outside their group) you can find anything you are looking for if you look long enough. A genetically conservative group (People that reproduces exclusively with people of their group) the Jews are a really great example of this, they inter marry so rarely with outsiders that they actually have some genetic diseases that are unique to "their group" (Tay-Sachs disease). When speaking of A genetically Promiscuous group, Americans come to mind, we tend to be open minded genetically speaking, we marry anybody, and everybody into our "melting pot", and historically this is what the American Indians did too.
How does this genetic promiscuity affect DNA studies?
DNA geological studies require three thingsMost genetic researches concerning the Book of Mormon assume the Book of Mormon says the ancestors of the American Indians meet these criteria, lets actually examine what the Book of Mormon says instead of "assuming".
- A Pure genetic sample starting from a common ancestor group.
- A genetically conservative group when living apart.
- A genetically conservative group also from the same ancestor group for comparison.
Supposition # 1, A Pure genetic sample starting from a common ancestor group:Supposition #2 A genetically conservative group When living apart:
- Lehi is a descendant of Joseph (Lets ignore to the end the fact that Joseph and Judah were brothers who's mothers while sisters may well have been from different wives (polygamy in the Bible being so common as to be unremarkable and the desire to have the first born married "first" would only matter for inheritance if the daughters were from different mothers)
- Zoram a slave of indeterminate genetic ancestry joined the group as it fled Jerusalem.
- Ishmael, joins the party by invitation, and we are not told his lineage (probably Jewish, but we can't be sure).
- Zoram and Ishmael's genetic code will be passed on as they now have wives and are procreating.
Supposition #3 A genetically conservative group also from the same ancestor group for comparison:
- And they discovered a people, who were called the people of Zarahemla
- Mulekites who came over to the Americas separately married in with the Lamanites
- There were Descendants of Ishmael
- Mormon makes a point of saying he is "a pure descendant of Lehi" as if this was a rare thing.
So, out of three things that are needed to get a match we have one. What should we find when doing this comparison?
- The Jews are a well known genetically conservative group.
- Central Siberia being remote is somewhat genetically conservative, but not as genetically conservative as Jewish DNA.
- Asia is also more genetically conservative, but again not as conservative as Jewish DNA.
We should get different answers with differing samples, and Gee, that's what we get.
Result? You cannot prove the Book of Mormon True or False with DNA. why? The American Indians were not a genetically conservative group, they would marry in vi kings and Spanish and Europeans, if they had been genetically conservative, and we could see that their DNA came from say Africa, that would be a blow to the Book of Mormon's credibility, but this is exactly what you would expect from a group that started as a genetically impure sample and diluted itself as it went.
On the other hand, if you could find a group of Indians who had halpotypes that did descend from the Middle east, that would be a significant support for the Book of Mormon.
Keith Crandall, a population geneticist who specializes in these kinds of research was asked to confirm the work done by many who were "outside their specialty", after doing the research, he joined the LDS church, and now teaches Genetics at BYU.
These videos are from fairLDS.org, and is a fair representation of what Mormons think about DNA and the Book of Mormon.
part 1 The Book of Mormon and New World DNA
part 2 The Book of Mormon and New World DNA
Part 3 The Book of Mormon and New World DNA
To sum up, DNA does not and cannot disprove the Book of Mormon, because the necessary circumstances are not there to support a negative conclusion, however, there is evidence to support the Book of Mormon if you want to look for it.
Well I left the Presbyterian church when I was living with the Minister and family after witnessing how he treated his flock.
One Sun after church the minister had on his tennis whites and was ready to go the Detroit Yacht club and a church member called to be consoled, her husband just died , he told her he was sorry he had a meeting he had to attend!
There is more I could never get answers to my questions that the Lord Jesus Christ talked about in the Bible but the clergy would just dismiss it as though that made it alright.
Well they are not the Lord and I took the Lord at his word.
So I search for 18 years did not expect my question to be answered by the LDS but that is where I found truth witness by the power of the Holy Ghost.
You are Welcome.
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