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To: cothrige
Why would that be a problem? Did the Jews that died for their sins throughout the old testament remain "good guys?" When the Jews believed, then they were "good guys," however when they rejected the Son they refused to believe what God revealed. That is not continuing in belief, but disbelief. And when many of them acted to persecute the Church or believers those people did in fact become "bad guys." It doesn't make Jews evil, or Christ-killers, or any such thing, but it does change their relationship to God. It changes it just as worshipping a golden calf did. And it also changes how the Church will view them from one of brothers to one of enemies. You shouldn't be surprised when people in history speak from what they know and see.

Assigning Israel the role of the "enemies of G-d" is to essentially make of Israel what 'Edom/`Alaleq had always been in Judaism. It simply reeks of "let's come up with an excuse to start a new religion."

To assume the claims of chr*stianity from the outset rather than to read G-d's Word chronologically and evaluate the claims of chr*stianity in the light of previous (universally acknowledged) revelation is the great blindness of all chr*stians of all persuasions (though Fundamentalist Protestants are much more willing to "start reading from the front").

172 posted on 01/31/2009 4:40:32 PM PST by Zionist Conspirator ('Ashirah leHaShem ki ga'oh ga'ah, sus verokhevo ramah vayam!)
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To: Zionist Conspirator
Assigning Israel the role of the "enemies of G-d" is to essentially make of Israel what 'Edom/`Alaleq had always been in Judaism. It simply reeks of "let's come up with an excuse to start a new religion."

No, it is to follow the words of scripture. Let us look at the texts you have been trying to twist into supporting that God is making people sin.

As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

The blind Jews, not being in the remnant that have accepted the Church, are enemies. They are enemies towards the Church, which is Christ. But, they are beloved as regards God's promises to their fathers. Of course God keeps his promises, even though they don't. However, he will not save those who are obstinate in their rejection of him, regardless of who their fathers are. This we know from the same texts.

Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again...

If they abide not still in unbelief then, and only then, shall they be grafted in. God is able to do this, as we know, but it depends on their belief. And notice that it doesn't say that God makes them not believe. He is severe to them that fell, and they did fall. They were not thrown over by God.

178 posted on 01/31/2009 9:16:19 PM PST by cothrige (Ego vero Evangelio non crederem, ni si me catholicae Ecclesiae commoveret auctoritas.)
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