[Alamo-Girl]

me: ==The letter in my mailbox has no meaning until I read it.

you: Not exactly. The message has no meaning for YOU until you have read it. Tell me, if a sparrow falls to the ground and you weren’t there to see it... Matthew 10:29

Indeed, I should not have personalized it. It should have been:

The letter in a mailbox has no meaning until it is read.

But this does not equate to the Father's knowing every sparrow that falls to the ground.

God's Name is I AM. He sees "all that there is" all at once. A thing is true because He says it.

Meaning to men is not in the same league with meaning to God.

For my thoughts [are] not your thoughts, neither [are] your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For [as] the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. – Isaiah 55:8-9

I think a better example of your point would be the philosophical question whether a tree falling in the forest makes a sound if no one is there to hear it.

I say that it does. Sound or pressure waves physically exist apart from the ability of anyone to hear them. Nevertheless, like the unopened letter in the mailbox, the pressure waves don't have meaning until they are perceived.

For instance, one of the fascinating observations of the MAXIMA, BOOMERANG, and DASI collaboration on the measurement of the cosmic background radiation is that sound - or pressure waves - are recorded in the CMB at the moment photons decoupled from electrons, protons, and neutrons - atoms formed and light went its way. Emphasis mine:

And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. - Genesis 1:3

No mortal was there to hear it when it happened. Nevertheless, it happened. The pressure waves are still there. Only recently have we been able to perceive them.

And indeed, that observation was meaningful to me as an observer - but I cannot say whether or not it was meaningful to you or anyone else.

Moreover, there is striking difference between physical sound (or words) and spiritual sound (or words.) The people Christ is addressing below were physically hearing Him but they could not Spiritually hear Him:

Why do ye not understand my speech? [even] because ye cannot hear my word. – John 8:43

The words of God are spirit and life. The words of men are neither spirit nor life.

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are life. – John 6:63

So therefore it is not enough for a man to know the Scriptures - he must also know the power of God (Jesus Christ) to hear the words of God:

Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. – Matthew 22:29

And so Truth is hidden in plain view.

Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: For this people's heart is waxed gross, and [their] ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with [their] eyes, and hear with [their] ears, and should understand with [their] heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. But blessed [are] your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear. – Matthew 13:13-16

And so again I say, that letter in the mailbox - the Bible in the motel room - the galaxies in the telescope - the DNA molecule in the microscope - and most importantly, Spiritual Truth - do not have "meaning" until they are perceived. And even then, the meaning is in the "eye of the beholder."

To God be the glory!

[hosepipe]

[ And so again I say, that letter in the mailbox - the Bible in the motel room - the galaxies in the telescope - the DNA molecule in the microscope - and most importantly, Spiritual Truth - do not have "meaning" until they are perceived. And even then, the meaning is in the "eye of the beholder." ]

Ah! so true.. whatever the observer "sees" and then perceives.. and sometimes "spins".. is "the observed truth"..

The wisdom of the sheep pen is pure brilliance.. (John ch 10).. i.e. holding pens
The peace of Ps 23 is transcendant.. of spin..
The real "no spin zone"...

The wisdom of Jesus leaving the Holy Spirit to vet perception is genius..
You see with your eyes or you see with your spirit..

The third eye painted on the forehead by Hindus is such a cartoon..
Better the Holy Spirit to see(perceive) for you..

[GodGunsGuts]

==The letter in a mailbox has no meaning until it is read.

The point I am trying to make is that it HAS been read. God “read” the letter before it was even written. And let’s not forget about the person who wrote it. Things have meaning whether we understand or witness them or not. If God knows ALL things, then every THING has meaning. To my mind, this understanding should be part of what Christians mean by objective reality. And the job of science should to discover this preexisting meaning. Science is diminished to the extent that it abandons this mission.

I’m off to church. God bless!

[TXnMA]

"The letter in a mailbox has no meaning until it is read."

Dear Sister in Christ: it is so seldom that I find myself in disagreement with you that I feel that I must avail myself of this opportunity! ;-)

~~~~~~~~~~

Of course, that letter has meaning -- to the one who wrote it. By the same token, God's Word has meaning (it is His Word) -- whether or not we choose to read it!

That letter and the Bible are both "repositories of meaning" -- stored and encoded information that is capable of conveying meaning -- independent of whether or not there is a receiver.

Or -- did I miss a definition of "meaning" that indicates otherwise?