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To: Alamo-Girl; betty boop; hosepipe; metmom; CottShop; spirited irish

==The letter in a mailbox has no meaning until it is read.

The point I am trying to make is that it HAS been read. God “read” the letter before it was even written. And let’s not forget about the person who wrote it. Things have meaning whether we understand or witness them or not. If God knows ALL things, then every THING has meaning. To my mind, this understanding should be part of what Christians mean by objective reality. And the job of science should to discover this preexisting meaning. Science is diminished to the extent that it abandons this mission.

I’m off to church. God bless!


636 posted on 02/08/2009 9:45:58 AM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: Alamo-Girl; betty boop; hosepipe; metmom; CottShop; spirited irish

PS I have a feeling this is at least part of the reason why so many scientists have such a huge problem with God. They want all the glory for their “discoveries.” They frown on the idea that everything they will ever discover is already known by God. And the idea that any given scientific discovery must necessarily glorify God (as the author and the creator of both the discovery and the discoverer) puts them in a worse mood still.


638 posted on 02/08/2009 10:00:53 AM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts; betty boop; hosepipe; metmom; CottShop; spirited irish; TXnMA
Thank you so much for sharing your insights, dear brother in Christ!

Truly, God is omniscient. He alone sees "all that there is" all at once.

For that reason, I aver "objective Truth" is known only to Him.

And further, I aver that all we can know about objective truth is what we individually receive from God the Father's revelations in (a) the Person of Jesus Christ, (b) the Person of the Holy Spirit, (c) Scripture, and (d) Creation both spiritual and physical.

Left to his own devices, man in search of objective truth is like one of the blind men trying to describe the elephant in the famous Saxe poem.

639 posted on 02/08/2009 10:12:53 AM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: GodGunsGuts; Alamo-Girl; betty boop; hosepipe; metmom; CottShop; spirited irish
Perhaps distinguishing different types of senders and receivers can help clarify the issue.
Types of Sender and Receiver
(a) Intelligent Sender and Intelligent Receiver

Clearly intelligent sender/receiver pairs exist, such as people.  The path between the sender and final target can, of course, involve intermediate sender/receiver pairs.  In addition, the message can be received and re-coded in various manners, preserving all or most of the original intended information.  Examples include the use of human translators or transmission across various media (voice radio waves tape recorder paper computer diskette).(b) Intelligent Sender and Non-Intelligent Receiver

Can an intelligent sender communicate with a non-intelligent receiver?  Sure.  Humans can interact with computers, for example.  The sender transmits a database query and the result is sent back.  The exchange can be interactive, such as working with a computer expert system.  Of course the message encoding (computer language) and additional infrastructure (hardware and communications devices) needs to be set up in advance by an intelligent agent.(c) Non-Intelligent Sender and Intelligent Receiver

Can a non-intelligent sender/receiver pair or sequence of pairs occur?  Certainly.  Automated production equipment can rely on a controller, which sends messages to on-line measuring devices to ensure the process is running as desired and corrective action can be taken.  Once again, this can only function if an intelligent agent, who knows the purpose of the system, sets up the whole arrangement.  The sender must be able to monitor the environment and interpret some kind of a signal.  The non-intelligent sender must then be able to automatically generate a message (e.g., ‘the pressure is rising’), which the receiver will be able to process (‘slow down the feed rate of X, increase the flow of cooling water, and send an alarm to Mrs Smith’).(d) Non-Intelligent Sender and Non-Intelligent Receiver

Now let’s consider an absolute extreme case.  The sender and receiver can only react mechanically.  Suppose the set-up must be fully automatic, meaning that when the sender or receiver is destroyed, a substitute has been provided for.

Compared to all the alternatives, this one requires the highest amount of intelligence from the agent who designed the system.  Eventualities need to be anticipated and all resources for repair and energy need to be prepared in advanced.  Do we find anything so enormously complex?  Yes—it is called life!

Careful analysis shows again and again that the process:  sender codes a message ® receiver decodes and uses the intended information, does not arise without the active involvement of a living intelligence at some point.  This has been systematically analyzed by Professor Gitt who showed that coded information cannot arise by chance.  Coded information obeys fundamental laws of nature, which in summarized form can be expressed as follows:[72]
http://www.trueorigin.org/dawkinfo.asp

Cordially,

669 posted on 02/09/2009 7:50:34 AM PST by Diamond
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