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To: betty boop; js1138; metmom; hosepipe; CottShop; GodGunsGuts
Thank you so much for this fascinating sidebar!

For the Lurkers, I'd like to explore further why we say that information (Shannon) is that which distinguishes life v. non-life/death in nature - and how it relates to this sidebar.

Apoptosis is a programmed cell death - a functional cell within the autonomous larger organism receives the message to die now. Conversely, necrosis of a functional cell within the autonomous larger organism occurs which the successful communication does not occur, e.g. the message to isolate the dead cells as in apoptosis was not sent or received successfully.

Relevant to this sidebar, it must be noticed that a single cell organism is autonomous. It is self-contained. Except for noise, communications is internal to the single cell organism.

And some of them, e.g. bacillus anthracis (anthrax) - enter a dormant state (spore) until a food source is present (e.g. it is inhaled.) This is like putting communications (e.g. your computer) in a stand-by mode until the mouse or keyboard moves.

Once the cell - whether a functional cell in a higher organism or a single cell organism - no longer communicates (or is no longer communications capable, e.g. in standby) - it is dead.

In "information theory and molecular biology" the thermodynamic tab (2nd law) is paid by heat dissipating into the local environment when the receiver (molecular machine) of a message goes from a before state to an after state. As the old adage goes, in death a person achieves room temperature.

In sum, communications are temporal, time-bound. The 2nd law (entropy) is universal, it applies consistently over all of time, i.e. after communications stop.

This can also be envisioned by a thought experiment.

Take a live rabbit and a recently dead rabbit and hypothetically break them down. The live rabbit has a higher temperature than the dead one because it is successfully communicating.

As you break the rabbits down to their component functional subsystems all the way to the individual cells, it becomes obvious that communications has stopped in the dead rabbit. The heart is not pumping, the blood is not flowing, etc.

But as you continue breaking the rabbits down to the chemicals and then particles or fields of which they consist, you see that both the dead rabbit and the live rabbit are made of the same "stuff."

And so betty boop and I have said that the difference between life v. non-life/death in nature is information (Shannon, successful communication.)

370 posted on 01/29/2009 8:25:56 AM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl; betty boop
[ And so betty boop and I have said that the difference between life v. non-life/death in nature is information (Shannon, successful communication.) ]

NOW thats a heroic attempt at explaining physical life.. and death..
Very informative.... thanks...

Amazing what one can learn by paying attention and communicating..
Excellent metaphors.. that say more than the words convey..

So the intercourse or merging of two data streams can bring new life?..
Maybe thats what "born again" means..

And what "the spirit" is, a data wave or field.. producing a new data set or database..
The "body of christ"(metaphor) then takes on a whole new dimension..
Information merged into a common (or universal)database..
With a life all its own..... Hey... THIS IS FUN...

371 posted on 01/29/2009 9:16:17 AM PST by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole....)
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To: Alamo-Girl
Once the cell - whether a functional cell in a higher organism or a single cell organism - no longer communicates (or is no longer communications capable, e.g. in standby) - it is dead.

But no living single celled organism has ever died this way. All I am saying is that cells may be killed or may die from starvation or asphyxiation, but non-specialized cells do not die from entropy or information degradation.

374 posted on 01/29/2009 10:01:02 AM PST by js1138
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To: Alamo-Girl; js1138; CottShop
Apoptosis is a programmed cell death.

Which leads one to inquire into the "teleology" of the "program."

What a magnificent essay/post dearest sister in Christ!

Plus it looks like we're both on a "rabbit kick" these days, LOLOL!

Thank you ever so much for this brilliant essay/post!

417 posted on 01/29/2009 3:04:05 PM PST by betty boop
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