Who is that Man of Sin to be revealed, the Son of Perdition...

Self | Jan 12th, 2009 | TARAP

[TaraP]

Are the Man of Sin and the Son of Perdition 2 totally different people?

MEANING OF PERDITION:Entire loss; utter destruction; ruin; esp., the utter loss of the soul, or of final happiness in a future state; future misery or eternal death.

Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

If the Man of SIN was Nero-666 then we have the Son of Perdition to be revealed....I know many have said is Obama that person, but really could he be?

Paul wrote similar words to the Thessalonians, ‘The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders’ (2 Thes 2:9).

John in the book of Revelation records his vision of a beast coming out of the earth. In similar words he says, ‘And he performed great and miraculous signs, even causing fire to come down from heaven to earth in full view of men.

Because of the signs he was given power to do on behalf of the first beast, he deceived those who dwell on the earth’ (Rev 13: 13,14).

"For The Son Of Man Will Come Like The Lightning, Which Flashes Across The Whole Sky From The East To The West." For Discussion:

[sheik yerbouty]

Will he soon be residing at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue?

[TaraP]

You know I did not think Obama was that person..I do now...
As he includes the Gay Preacher Gene Robinson who will say a prayer to the world and not from the GOD of the Bible...

I think more and more evidence will soon surface about the Son of Perdition....

[Former Fetus]

If the Man of SIN was Nero-666 then we have the Son of Perdition to be revealed

I think this is were you are mistaken. Nero was a type of Antichrist, just like Antiocchus, and "anyone who denies the Father and the Son" (1 John 2:22). There will be one Antichrist, not a type of, but the real thing, and he is known as both the Man of Sin and the Man of Perdition (aka the Beast of the Sea, the Little Horn...). As for your question, do I think Barak Obama is the Antichrist? No, I don't, mainly because the church has not been raptured yet but also because he does not fit the description (except maybe coming to power by mass deception, but you could say the same about Hitler). He will advance the One World Government that the Antichrist will rule. What I do think, however, is that Obama is a type of Antichrist, maybe the last one before the real thing. We don't know the day or the hour when our Lord is coming, but we can surely watch the signs. And all signs seem to point at a time not too far in the future. That's why I daily pray "Come soon Lord Jesus".

[sheik yerbouty]

Think “The times of Noah.”

[kingpins9]

Well said! Amen.

[mkjessup]

** PING ** to Freeper ‘668 Neighbor of the Beast’, anything going on with your local Neighborhood Watch these days? ;)

[668 - Neighbor of the Beast]

Yes, all visitors who cannot provide the correct password are directed to approach by the old footbridge over the gorge.

[HKMk23]

Better look to the East, my FRiends. The Kingdom of The Beast is rising.

The great danger is that the relatively recent (in the last 150 years) rise of the "Roman" paradigm for the Antichrist Kingdom effaces centuries of prior tradition that understood his kingdom to be centered in the same geographic region as the ancient foes of Israel: Babylon, Assyria, Persia.

This shift in thought substantively endangers Western Christians, because the tendency has become that people are so tightly bound to their Romanized ideas of how apocalyptic events will shake out that, if/when those events happen differently, they could easily fall into deception as to the forces behind them; being lovers of their own views more that lovers of Truth.

Never forget that a primary operating principle of God had been to offend the mind so as to reveal the heart. Jesus did it to the Pharisees continually, and to very great effect. This continues to be a method of His work among men.

I do not assert a certainty as to when/how/where apocalyptic events will transpire, but I urgently implore that all who seek to study these things do so ONLY in the context of these crucial elements:
— abject humility before God — continual prayer
— intentional fasting
— an unflinching love of Truth (cf. II Thess. 2:10)

The hours IS late, and the matter IS important; it is insufficient that it be relegated to a few 'prophecy nuts' sequestered in some church anteroom every other Thursday night.

Understand that, if St. Paul thought eschatology critical enough to teach the whole of it during his brief stint at Thessaloniki, then it is central enough that every Christian had better take it seriously as a front-burner topic of study and discussion.

[TaraP]

How does 666 fit into a upcoming Antichrist.

The Son of Perdition?

[Salamander]

Well, Jews, Muslims and “Christians” love him and the world does wonder after him.

Your call.

[maybe his birth certificate just has a cloven hoof print instead of a human father’s signature]

All I know for sure is that this being is pure EVIL and not ~at all~ what he “seems” to those who lack discernment.

[topcat54]

The Man of Sin in Second Thessalonians by Dr. Francis Nigel Lee

[Former Fetus]

Hopefully, the first had convinced them that there would be no rapture of the saints from out of this wicked World

????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? I realize that some people don't believe in the rapture, but this is the first time I have seen someone claim that 1 Thessalonians teaches that there will be no rapture. "Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord" (1 Thess. 4:17). Furthermore, we are instructed to comfort one another with these blessed hope.

[thatjoeguy]

“How does 666 fit into a upcoming Antichrist.”

John gave us a clue as to how to correctly identify him by adding up the letters in his name. You see the Greeks didn’t have numbers (0-9) back then they used letters. So, to find out the number of the beast you just add up the letters in his name, of course you have to convert it to Greek first or at least convert the sounds to match the Greek letters.

Some examples by Iranaeus (Against Heresies Book 5.30.3): Evanthas, Lateinos, & Teitan.

Each one when converted to Greek sounds adds up to 666.

JB

[thatjoeguy]

1 Thessalonians 4 doesn’t teach a pre-trib rapture, Paul clearly says in verse 14 that those who are still alive at the ‘Coming of the Lord’ will be raptured or caught up. There is nothing in 1 Thessalonians that A)limits this to the Church before the tribulation, & B)Tells us where we are going afterward. It simply says: “to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”. To claim we’re going back to Heaven reads into the passage what isn’t in there.

To better understand this passage and its place in prophecy we need to try and find other passages in the Bible that describe the same thing with all (or as many) of the same characteristics as we can. Fortunately we have such a passage in Matthew 24 and here Jesus clearly places this event after the tribulation.

JB

[Former Fetus]

I agree that 1 Thess teaches about the rupture, but it does not mention pre- mid- or post-tribulation. There are other passages that teach a pre-tribulation rapture. My favorite is Titus 2:13 “looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ” which seems to indicate 2 separate events: the rapture (blessed hope) and the glorious appearing that we all agree will take place after the rapture. Anyhow, books have been written on the subject and I know from experience that I won’t change your mind if you are not a pre-trib person.

[Star Traveler]

You said — “Better look to the East, my FRiends. The Kingdom of The Beast is rising.”

Walid Shoebat has been teaching on just such a thing. It sounds like he’s got some good teaching, although it differs from some things in other Evangelicals teachings on Prophecy.

There is a series of teachings from Walid, at a Prophecy Conference on YouTube. I would have to find it... to see if I can list one link here...

Okay, found it...

It’s a whole series of YouTube items. You’ll have to use the related items to follow it through.

The first one is — http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=U-zX9d1Yt3g&feature=channel_page

This is A1 of 7, then comes B1 of 7, and then C1 of 8. So, all totaled, there are 22 sections...

Walid Shoebat has a book that outlines all these details, too.

[topcat54]

I realize that some people don't believe in the rapture, but this is the first time I have seen someone claim that 1 Thessalonians teaches that there will be no rapture.

You stopped quoting too soon.

Dr. Lee says, “there would be no rapture of the saints from out of this wicked World -- and no History which would thereafter continue among the wicked on an all-evil Earth.”

When Dr. Lee uses the term "rapture" he means the secret pre-trib rapture of dispensationalism when the Church is removed from the tribulation and wickedness of this world as a distinct event from the Second Coming. He denies the rapture of dispensationalism.

At the Second Coming we are not so much removed from wickedness as the world is judged and the wicked cast into the lake of fire, while the saints enter into the glory of God in the new heavens and new earth. The wicked world ceases to be at Christ's return.

[topcat54]

which seems to indicate 2 separate events:

Sorry to explode your theory, but the Greek allows for no such interpretation. It's called Granville Sharp's rule. By that rule, “blessed hope” and “glorious appearing” both describe the same event.

It is impossible to get a secret rapture distinct from the Second Coming in that verse (or any verse of the NT).

[PleaseNoMore]

1 Thessalonians does not teach the rapture at all, especially not a pre-trib rapture. This book speaks specifically of the Second Coming, and that is only going to occur once.

The dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up & be forever with the Lord. It can’t be any clearer than that.

15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18Wherefore comfort one another with these words.