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To: PugetSoundSoldier; Kolokotronis; kosta50
My own personal story: I was baptized, raised, and confirmed a Roman Catholic and I fully believe the doctrines to this day. However, I'm not too fond of the post-Vatican II Catholic Mass myself, and I agree that it tends to be rather drab and ritualistic. I don't care for the pre-Vatican version either -- I want my services in English, not Latin, so I can fully understand the passages we're reading.

I believe we are literally receiving Jesus when we have Catholic communion, because I take communion, and when I take it I feel filled with Jesus and in direct communication with him in a way that I never feel when I'm not partaking of communion. I feel it's unfortunate that many protestants have never experienced this and will never know Jesus in that way (that's NOT to say they can't have a deep personal relationship with Jesus in other ways and speak to him directly) I certainly do feel the Southern Baptist ritual is meaningless if they use the time to "symbolically" eat regular bread and deeply reflect about what Jesus death meant for us. Like I said, I've had the same feeling and been deeply moved by watching The Passion of The Christ, why would it matter if I ate some "symbolic" bread while I did it.

I honestly don't know how we receive Jesus himself when we have communion, only that I believe in my heart that we do. Maybe the Catholic doctrine of "transubstantiation" is the truth. Maybe the Orthodox doctrine of "metousiosis" is the truth. Maybe neither is. Of course we refer to it as a wine and bread, because it maintains the physical attributes of wine and bread. God works in mysterious ways.

I'm not too fond of the Roman Catholic Latin rite of having everyone drink from the same glass (even though it was done that way 2000 years ago, who's to say you couldn't catch a disease from someone else by using the same cup). A couple of times lately I've been going to a Byzantine Catholic Church, which has a really interesting way of doing communion (they use a goblet and soak the bread in the wine and then drop it in your mouth), and I find their masses much more exciting. It's kind of a hybred Catholic-Orthodox experience since they're eastern rite, but in full communion with the Pope. That's one of cool things about Christianity, just as there are many kinds of worship styles among protestants, there are many worship styles among Catholics. I can fulfill my Sunday obligations at any type of Catholic church. I'd like to go the Byzantine Catholic church more often, but sadly, it's a long drive from my house.

I attended services as a Methodist Church once, for Ash Weds in downtown Chicago. It was a very nice homily, but overall I didn't like it. The one I went to was wayyyy too liberal for my tastes. It was one of those "we welcome openly gay and lesbians to our brethen" churches and they had a female pastor in plain clothes. Didn't feel comfortable there. I know GWB is a Methodist, perhaps you know of a more conservative branch because overall they seem pretty liberal.

I've attended Lutheran and Anglician services, and liked them, mainly because they're the most "Catholic" of the Protestant branches it's kind of like experiencing a different brand of Catholicism. My grandfather was a Lutheran.

One time I attended a four hour Greek Orthodox service, and found theirs to be the most interesting of all. Since we both believe in the "Real presence", I did indeed participate in what I thought was communion there, and stood in line for the bread, only to learn later on that they didn't give me the actual communion but merely "blessed bread" since I wasn't an orthodox Christian member. The priest said he wasn't offended though and it's fine for me to get in line for the bread if I want to. And I can honestly say that receiving "blessed bread" but not the physical Jesus was NOT as spiritually enriching for me, something was missing. In any case I really love the Orthodox style of worship but there are some big sticking points that prevent Catholics and Orthodox from reunification. One thing with the Orthodox church is they all tend to be very "ethnic", you go a Greek church and it's VERY Greek, you go to a Russian church and it's VERY Russian, so for someone not raised in that background, you're simply an outsider. It's a very interesting service though. I highly recommend others to attend one sometime.

I was always taught that Catholics, Protestants, and Orthodox are the three main tiers of Christianity and each has unique and enriching culture and rituals of their own. I can't imagine any "Christian" attacking the other two branches as heathens and heretics because some of their doctrines are different.

331 posted on 12/27/2008 10:07:52 PM PST by BillyBoy (Impeach Obama? Yes We Can!)
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To: BillyBoy; PugetSoundSoldier; Kolokotronis
 Maybe the Catholic doctrine of "transubstantiation" is the truth. Maybe the Orthodox doctrine of "metousiosis" is the truth

BB, the term metousiosis basically, means trans+substantiation. The Orthodox simply say they believe the Holy Spirit changes the blessed bread and wine into the Body and Blood of Christ without going into the "mechanics" of the mystery.

One thing with the Orthodox church is they all tend to be very "ethnic"

Try Orthodox Church of America (OCA) churches. They are all in English.

Every time I see papal Mass in Rome, he sings it in Latin, and lay readers read in their native languages. The Catholic Church is also very ethnic. Pre-Vatican II Church was universal in that the Mass was sung the same way in the same language in the Philippines and in Buenos Aires and in New York and in Rome, and Berlin.

I don't buy that Catholics can't learn Latin when each Missal used to have the words of the Mass in Latin on one side and in the local language in the other. After years, a Catholic cold attend Mass in Tokyo and hear the same familiar language which he or she understood.

We all learn how to read and write, how to be computer literate, how to add and subtract, yet for the love of God people cannot or won't learn the language that unites them! Amazing. I must conclude that some Catholics must love God less than their computers because no one was born speaking Latin and no one was born computer-literate.


356 posted on 12/27/2008 11:36:17 PM PST by kosta50
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