Joseph Smith’s Modalism: Sabellian Sequentialism or Swedenborgian Expansionism?

Institute for Religious Research ^ | 2006 | Ronald V. Huggins

[Elsie]

Do you really believe what this person wrote?<./I>

Are you talkin' 'bout Joseph Smith?

[Elsie]

 And why would they have those feelings towards us if they were secure and confident in the truth of their own faith?

 

 

Yeah!!

 

What YOU said!!

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Jude 1:3

  Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

 

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Romans 6:17
   But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you wholeheartedly obeyed the form of teaching to which you were entrusted.

 

 Romans 15:4
   For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through endurance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.

 

 Romans 16:17
   I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them.

 

1 Corinthians 4:17
   For this reason I am sending to you Timothy, my son whom I love, who is faithful in the Lord. He will remind you of my way of life in Christ Jesus, which agrees with what I teach everywhere in every church.

 

1 Corinthians 11:1-2
 1.  Follow my example, as I follow the example of Christ.
 2.  I praise you for remembering me in everything and for holding to the teachings,  just as I passed them on to you.

 

Ephesians 4:14
   Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming.

 

2 Thessalonians 2:15
   So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings  we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.

 

2 Thessalonians 3:6
   In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, we command you, brothers, to keep away from every brother who is idle and does not live according to the teaching  you received from us.

 

1 Timothy 1:3-4
 3.  As I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain men not to teach false doctrines any longer
 4.  nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. These promote controversies rather than God's work--which is by faith.

 

1 Timothy 2:7
   And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle--I am telling the truth, I am not lying--and a teacher of the true faith to the Gentiles.

 

1 Timothy 4:6
   If you point these things out to the brothers, you will be a good minister of Christ Jesus, brought up in the truths of the faith and of the good teaching that you have followed.

 

 2 Timothy 1:13
  What you heard from me, keep as the pattern of sound teaching, with faith and love in Christ Jesus.

 

2 Timothy 2:2
  And the things you have heard me say in the presence of many witnesses entrust to reliable men who will also be qualified to teach others.

Hebrews 13:8-9
 8.  Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.
 9.  Do not be carried away by all kinds of strange teachings. It is good for our hearts to be strengthened by grace, not by ceremonial foods, which are of no value to those who eat them.

 

2 John 1:10
   If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him.

 

Titus 2:1
  You must teach what is in accord with sound doctrine.

[Elsie]

I wouldn’t EVER say anything bad about your religion. I just expect the same from the people, I consider follow my beliefs since we visit the same site.

So, what you're saying, is that if YOU are on a certain thread, folks should NOT say anything bad that would upset you?

[Elsie]

Is this author saying that God created Himself?

Do you believe that God created Himself?

Answer these questions and leave US alone!!

--MormonDude(Let me catch my breath)

[Elsie]

Your author’s writing stile is better suited to selling a used lemon of a car the in relaying the truth.

You ARE talking about Joseph Smith!

[Elsie]

So, God does not protect his “prophets” today? Does he just throw them out there and say “ Now go preach but you are on your own!”

Heck no!!

HE protects them quite well!

To keep from mere blowing off at the mouth, our Living Prophet® (pbuh) has 12 yesmen [oops] The Quorum of Twelve to agree unanimously that what the Prophet hasd said is TRULY 'from the Lord'.

--MormonDude(I hope this info helped)

[Elsie]

All you have to do is read Smith’s words for yourself. It would appear Smith never said anything good about other CHRISTIANS but spent his time tooting his own horn.

 

NO!!!!!!

 

 

 

THE FIRST BOOK OF NEPHI
HIS REIGN AND MINISTRY

CHAPTER 14

 

An angel tells Nephi of the blessings and cursings to fall upon the Gentiles—There are only two churches: the Church of the Lamb of God and the church of the devil—The saints of God in all nations are persecuted by the great and abominable church—The apostle John shall write concerning the end of the world. Between 600 and 592 B.C. 

 

   1 And it shall come to pass, that if the Gentiles shall hearken unto the Lamb of God in that day that he shall manifest himself unto them in word, and also in power, in very deed, unto the taking away of their stumbling blocks—
  2 And harden not their hearts against the Lamb of God, they shall be numbered among the seed of thy father; yea, they shall be numbered among the house of Israel; and they shall be a blessed people upon the promised land forever; they shall be no more brought down into captivity; and the house of Israel shall no more be confounded.
  3 And that great pit, which hath been digged for them by that great and abominable church, which was founded by the devil and his children, that he might lead away the souls of men down to hell—yea, that great pit which hath been digged for the destruction of men shall be filled by those who digged it, unto their utter destruction, saith the Lamb of God; not the destruction of the soul, save it be the casting of it into that hell which hath no end.
  4 For behold, this is according to the captivity of the devil, and also according to the justice of God, upon all those who will work wickedness and abomination before him.
  5 And it came to pass that the angel spake unto me, Nephi, saying: Thou hast beheld that if the Gentiles repent it shall be well with them; and thou also knowest concerning the covenants of the Lord unto the house of Israel; and thou also hast heard that whoso repented not must perish.
  6 Therefore, woe be unto the Gentiles if it so be that they harden their hearts against the Lamb of God.
  7 For the time cometh, saith the Lamb of God, that I will work a great and a marvelous work among the children of men; a work which shall be everlasting, either on the one hand or on the other—either to the convincing of them unto peace and life eternal, or unto the deliverance of them to the hardness of their hearts and the blindness of their minds unto their being brought down into captivity, and also into destruction, both temporally and spiritually, according to the captivity of the devil, of which I have spoken.
  8 And it came to pass that when the angel had spoken these words, he said unto me: Rememberest thou the covenants of the Father unto the house of Israel? I said unto him, Yea.
  9 And it came to pass that he said unto me: Look, and behold that great and abominable church, which is the mother of abominations, whose founder is the devil.
  10 And he said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth.
  11 And it came to pass that I looked and beheld the whore of all the earth, and she sat upon many waters; and she had dominion over ball the earth, among all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people.
  12 And it came to pass that I beheld the church of the Lamb of God, and its numbers were few, because of the wickedness and abominations of the whore who sat upon many waters; nevertheless, I beheld that the church of the Lamb, who were the saints of God, were also upon ball the face of the earth; and their dominions upon the face of the earth were small, because of the wickedness of the great whore whom I saw.
  13 And it came to pass that I beheld that the great mother of abominations did gather together multitudes upon the face of all the earth, among all the nations of the Gentiles, to fight against the Lamb of God.
  14 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, beheld the power of the Lamb of God, that it descended upon the saints of the church of the Lamb, and upon the covenant people of the Lord, who were scattered upon all the face of the earth; and they were armed with righteousness and with the power of God in great glory.
  15 And it came to pass that I beheld that the wrath of God was poured out upon that great and abominable church, insomuch that there were wars and rumors of wars among all the nations and kindreds of the earth.
  16 And as there began to be wars and rumors of wars among all the nations which belonged to the mother of abominations, the angel spake unto me, saying: Behold, the wrath of God is upon the mother of harlots; and behold, thou seest all these things—
  17 And when the day cometh that the wrath of God is poured out upon the mother of harlots, which is the great and abominable church of all the earth, whose founder is the devil, then, at that day, the work of the Father shall commence, in preparing the way for the fulfilling of his covenants, which he hath made to his people who are of the house of Israel.
  18 And it came to pass that the angel spake unto me, saying: Look!
  19 And I looked and beheld a man, and he was dressed in a white robe.
  20 And the angel said unto me: Behold one of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
  21 Behold, he shall see and write the remainder of these things; yea, and also many things which have been.
  22 And he shall also write concerning the end of the world.
  23 Wherefore, the things which he shall write are just and true; and behold they are written in the book which thou beheld proceeding out of the mouth of the Jew; and at the time they proceeded out of the mouth of the Jew, or, at the time the book proceeded out of the mouth of the Jew, the things which were written were plain and pure, and most precious and easy to the understanding of all men.
  24 And behold, the things which this apostle of the Lamb shall write are many things which thou hast seen; and behold, the remainder shalt thou see.
  25 But the things which thou shalt see hereafter thou shalt not write; for the Lord God hath ordained the apostle of the Lamb of God that he should write them.
  26 And also others who have been, to them hath he shown all things, and they have written them; and they are sealed up to come forth in their purity, according to the truth which is in the Lamb, in the own due time of the Lord, unto the house of Israel.
  27 And I, Nephi, heard and bear record, that the name of the apostle of the Lamb was john, according to the word of the angel.
  28 And behold, I, Nephi, am forbidden that I should write the remainder of the things which I saw and heard; wherefore the things which I have written sufficeth me; and I have written but a small part of the things which I saw.
  29 And I bear record that I saw the things which my father saw, and the angel of the Lord did make them known unto me.
  30 And now I make an end of speaking concerning the things which I saw while I was carried away in the spirit; and if all the things which I saw are not written, the things which I have written are true. And thus it is. Amen.

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The Official Scriptures of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
© 2006 Intellectual Reserve, Inc. All rights reserved.

 

[Elsie]

What's up with the increase in anti Mormon threads lately?

Yeah!

We wanna KNOW!!

--MormonDude( http://newsroom.lds.org/ldsnewsroom/eng/news-releases-stories/apostle-urges-students-to-use-new-media )

[Elsie]

When Joseph Smith formed the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, he did it not to bash any religion, but to establish one based on prophecy (whether you believe it or not does not matter) that he thought was the right thing to do, like all founders of whatever religion.

And Karl Marx don't affect us either!

Or than Hitler fellow or that A-big-nut-job or even Ali Baba!

Don't bash THEIR beliefs - they don't hurt you.

--MormonDude(Can't we all just GET ALONG???)

[Elsie]

 Feels like I’m in the Twilight Zone with Joe Smith and a bunch of rocks.

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Welcome to Mormonism 101

 

We'll begin in a minute.

 

In the mean time, you may enjoy the art that is on our walls.

 

 

 

 

 

You may think some of our doctrine a bit shifty; but if you study it real close in one area, it will be quite steady.

 

Please ignore any shifting you THINK you observe elsewhere, for if you look at THAT area; it, too, will become fixed.

[Elsie]

You got to remember, G's author made up the idea up as a strawman so he could fool ya’ll into thinking he made a valid point.

Yup - you ARE talking about JS!

[Elsie]

Many times here at FR I have seen posters take a little truth, mix it up with other non-related truths, and come to a conclusion that is a lie about the LDS teachings.

Many times in the BoM (ETAL) I have seen Joseph Smith take a little truth, mix it up with other non-related truths, and come to a conclusion that is a lie about the BIBLE teachings.

[Elsie]

Any interpretation of that quote shows that Jesus Christ is God...

MORMONism states that JESUS is GOD.

It also states that GOD has TWO physical bodies.

[Elsie]

What a lot of folks around here do when they say they are “simply quoting” LDS Doctrine is teaching something that they have some how gotten wrong and they have no desire to even look at the possibility of why they have it wrong.

So... are you saying that FIANLLY someone on the LDS team will state just what was UNTRUE about PRESBYTERIANISM that Joseph Smith claimed he 'learned'?

[Elsie]

—MormonDude( http://newsroom.lds.org/ldsnewsroom/eng/news-releases-stories/apostle-urges-students-to-use-new-media )

[ejonesie22]

How can a direct quote be wrong?

The only way is if the original document or writing is incorrect...

Or been changed by the source owner...

Hum...

[count-your-change]

He has the look of someone who would’ve impressive to meet in person. But down through the years what we look like means less and less until all that matters is what we did.

Thanks!

[freeplancer]

WOw Elsie, three seperate replies to little ole me. That little light of yours is shining, shining, shining.

[restornu]

Must remember when folks act like bullies who taught and bait have not left the school yard!

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This is on the RM profile

Remember this:

The demeanor of the poster says more about his own confession than the post says about yours. When he is being rude or mean it drives people away from his confession and towards yours. That is of course if you can resist the urge to meet fire with fire, in which case neither confession is appealing to the lurkers. The poster who “turns the other cheek” wins every single time.
If the other guy is throwing spitwads at you on an “open” thread it probably means he has run out of ammunition. Take it as a backhanded compliment. You won, walk away.

Spiritual maturity is not a prerequisite for posting on the Religion Forum. If the other guy is being childish, be patient with him.

http://www.freerepublic.com/~religionmoderator/

[fproy2222]

How can a direct quote be wrong?

++++++++

I spoke not of the direct quotes,

I spoke of mixing them together in ways they were not meant to be.

I spoke of making up things and then using that lie as a basis of saying this Church is wrong.
(check post #32)

I spoke of other posters making up things I did not say and then using that lie to question my beliefs. (check post #49)

Go back and read how the author made up a seen between Joseph Smith and Mrs. So and So.

These attacks have been called Strawman Arguments, but many of them are in the realm of out and out lies.

You said this a while back,
“Actually what I have found is folks simply quoting the LDS own doctrine and been called hateful for doing so.”

It is not the true examples of our doctrine that is upsetting, it is the twisting of the truth until, what is said to be what we believe, is not what we believe.

And then some folks go away believing the twisted lie as if we really teach it.

Then these folks repeat it believing they are telling the truth about our doctrine.