Joseph Smith’s Modalism: Sabellian Sequentialism or Swedenborgian Expansionism?

Institute for Religious Research ^ | 2006 | Ronald V. Huggins

[Elsie]

Feel free to believe whatever you want, but when you speak of Mormon Doctrine, only the Canonized scriptures of the church are authoritative.

GOOD!!!

Now I shall post a copy of the LDS Organization's Temple Rituals:

They WILL stay up because they are NOT CANONIZED!

Not 'canon' = NOT sacred!

Not 'canon' = Teachings of Men

[Elsie]

Feel free to believe whatever you want, but when you speak of Mormon Doctrine, only the Canonized scriptures of the church are authoritative.

Not according to an ex-Living Prophet®:

 

 

 

In conclusion let us summarize this grand key, these “Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet”, for our salvation depends on them.

1. The prophet is the only man who speaks for the Lord in everything.
2. The living prophet is more vital to us than the standard works.
3. The living prophet is more important to us than a dead prophet.
4. The prophet will never lead the church astray.
5. The prophet is not required to have any particular earthly training or credentials to speak on any subject or act on any matter at any time.
6. The prophet does not have to say “Thus Saith the Lord,” to give us scripture.
7. The prophet tells us what we need to know, not always what we want to know.
8. The prophet is not limited by men’s reasoning.
9. The prophet can receive revelation on any matter, temporal or spiritual.
10. The prophet may advise on civic matters.
11. The two groups who have the greatest difficulty in following the prophet are the proud who are learned and the proud who are rich.
12. The prophet will not necessarily be popular with the world or the worldly.
13. The prophet and his counselors make up the First Presidency—the highest quorum in the Church.
14. The prophet and the presidency—the living prophet and the First Presidency—follow them and be blessed—reject them and suffer.

I testify that these fourteen fundamentals in following the living prophet are true. If we want to know how well we stand with the Lord then let us ask ourselves how well we stand with His mortal captain—how close do our lives harmonize with the Lord’s anointed—the living Prophet—President of the Church, and with the Quorum of the First Presidency.

 

Ezra Taft Benson

(Address given Tuesday, February 26, 1980 at Brigham Young University)

[Elsie]

Sorry Elsie, but my award for thread spam goes to Greyfoxx39 this time.

Dang!

And I so much wanted a Cracker Jack® prize!

[svcw]

wooha, I was having brain lag. I thought you were writing and I was reading the democrat platform. I need another cup of coffee.

[Diamond]

"...the Father and Mother of Jesus, according to the flesh, must have been associated together in the capacity of Husband and Wife..."

The Father and Mother of Jesus, according to the flesh??? Here I am puzzling over how a thing can be NOT that thing, or NOT that thing can be that thing, as in, NOT being begotten by a Holy Man, and conceived and born of a virgin "the way that mortal men are begotten by mortal fathers - the way you were by your father, the way your father was", is the same as being begotten by a Holy Man, and conceived and born of a virgin, and then off you go and post that statement of Orson Pratt. Oh for cry'n out loud! Thanks A LOT!

Cordially,

[Elsie]

...and then off you go and post that statement of Orson Pratt.

You do not seem to understand; Gentile.

You see, we CAN use non-canonized stuff if it advances our agenda; but YOU cannot use non-canonized stuff we've said over the years if it makes us look bad.

--MormonDude(You REALLY need a couple of our highly trained young people to stop by your home and FULLY explain the Restored Gospel to you!)

[Diamond]

You see, we CAN use non-canonized stuff if it advances our agenda; but YOU cannot use non-canonized stuff we've said over the years if it makes us look bad.

And that's another thing - if in speaking of Mormon Doctrine only the Canonized scriptures of the church are authoritative, then the question is; Canonized scriptures as interpreted by whom? Since according to Benson:

1. The prophet is the only man who speaks for the Lord in everything.
2. The living prophet is more vital to us than the standard works.
3. The living prophet is more important to us than a dead prophet.

then is Benson's interpretation of Canonized scriptures of the church the authoritative one, or, since he's now dead, is his interpretation no longer operative? If the current living prophet's interpretation is the authoritative one, then who has the authority to interpret HIS words? Only he? Where does that leave the notion that in the determination of doctrine only the Canonized scriptures of the church are authoritative? Does an individual Mormon have the authority to interpret for himself the current living prophets's words, or the Canonized scriptures of the church, or any words of any dead prophet that might be relevant, to see what current Mormon doctrine is at any given moment?

Cordially,

[Elsie]

It’s TURTLES: all the way down.

[Godzilla]

Cognitive Dissonance

[Colofornian]

You see, we CAN use non-canonized stuff if it advances our agenda; but YOU cannot use non-canonized stuff we've said over the years if it makes us look bad.

Yup. Frame it. (It's not only standard Mormon Apologetics 101, but it's "How to Try to Negate the Other Side #1" of standard Mormon Apologetics 101.)

If it's not "faith elevating," never mind that it's Mormon history...LDS history has ALWAYS been about editing & leaving what hasn't made the newest revelational cut - or PR cut -- on the cutting-room floor, whether it was the...
...1830s Book of Commandments excised;
...original Book of Mormon passages revised;
...King James Bible passages superceded by the Joey Smith JST revisions--oh, but not really, JST revelations from God are "footnote" status;
...back-and-forth barriers-&-open doors of Mormon god-ordained polygamy, blood atonement doctrine, Adam-is-god, or blacks-are-denied-but-now-accepted-as-priest-holders...

[greyfoxx39]

Does an individual Mormon have the authority to interpret for himself the current living prophets's words, or the Canonized scriptures of the church, or any words of any dead prophet that might be relevant, to see what current Mormon doctrine is at any given moment?

That privilege lies with the LDS Public Relations Department and depends on their view of the popularity of the mormon church at any one time.

[Diamond]

They have a PR Department?

Cordially,

[Elsie]

They have a PR Department?

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I think that churches that spend time attacking our beliefs must do so because their own theology is such thin gruel that they have to fill the time with something, and nothing creates unity among their membership like creating a common enemy that they can all hate together.

 

Ha!!

Looks like Orwell was a plagrist by using JS' works!

1984 needs to be re-looked at with a critical eye!

---

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"Look me in the eyes," said O'Brien. "What country is Oceania at war with?"

He knew what was meant by Oceania and that he himself was a citizen of Oceania. He also remembered Eurasia and Eastasia; but who was at war with whom he did not know. In fact he had not been aware that there was any war.

"I don't remember."

"Oceania is at war with Eastasia. Do you remember that now?"

"Yes."

"Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia. Since the beginning of your life, since the beginning of the Party, since the beginning of history, the war has continued without a break, always the same war. Do you remember that?"

"Yes."

---

---

1984 has long been the first book to which we have turned for a vivid picture of a government that has used war to justify infringement on freedom; that has used speech codes to limit everyone's ability to understand higher concepts or concepts that favour human individuality; that uses powerful media to build unwarranted consensus and rewrite history; and that has used technology to nip political opposition and individualistic or eccentric practices in the bud. Far from being a caricature, it insightfully and skillfully characterizes the tendencies and motivations of unlimited government power, and the horrifying, hopeless result of such government: humanity denied its freedom to think, to be rational, and to dissent...its freedom to be human.

If, after finishing 1984, you find yourself nervous and paranoid, then: good. You have just taken a step closer to respecting the importance of human freedom and dignity, and the dangers in allowing governments to usurp your freedom to dissent or be different. All that remains is to fight to maintain or regain your ownlife (read the book, you'll know what we mean).

 

http://www.mondopolitico.com/library/1984/1984.htm

Snippets...

One did not know what happened inside the Ministry of Love, but it was possible to guess: tortures, drugs, delicate instruments that registered your nervous reactions, gradual wearing-down by sleeplessness and solitude and persistent questioning. Facts, at any rate, could not be kept hidden. They could be tracked down by enquiry, they could be squeezed out of you by torture. But if the object was not to stay alive but to stay human, what difference did it ultimately make? They could not alter your feelings: for that matter you could not alter them yourself, even if you wanted to. They could lay bare in the utmost detail everything that you had done or said or thought; but the inner heart, whose workings were mysterious even to yourself, remained impregnable.

.

.

.

He thought of the telescreen with its never-sleeping ear. They could spy upon you night and day, but if you kept your head you could still outwit them. With all their cleverness they had never mastered the secret of finding out what another human being was thinking. Perhaps that was less true when you were actually in their hands.

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[greyfoxx39]

They have a PR Department?

See header at top of page

"The Official Resource for News Media, Opinion Leaders and the Public.

“It’s about clarifying who we are,” said Michael Otterson, Director of Public Relations for the LDS (Mormon) Church.

[Elsie]

[aMorePerfectUnion]

placemarker on a long thread...

[Elsie]

MORE than Beast*2!!!

[Godzilla]

They have a PR Department?

LDS Church-owned radio stations:

KSL-AM (Salt Lake City) - purchased in 1925
KIRO-AM/KSEA-FM (Seattle) - purchased in 1963
WRFM-FM (New York City) - purchased in 1966
KMBZ-AM/KMBR-FM (Kansas City, Mo.) - purchased in 1967
KBIG-FM (Los Angeles) - purchased in 1968
WCLR-FM (Chicago) - purchased in 1969
KAAM-AM/KAFM-FM (Dallas) - purchased in 1977
KOIT-AM/KOIT-FM (San Francisco) - purchased in 1975, 1983

TV Stations in which the LDS Church owns large amounts of stock:

WVTM-TV Birmingham, Ala.
KTV-TV St. Louis, Mo.
WETM-TV Elmira, N.Y.
WSTM-TV Syracuse, N.Y.
WHTM-TV Harrisburg, Pa.
KTBC-TV Austin, TX
KDFW-TV Dallas, TX

“It still bothers those of us who work here [Church Public Communications Department] and must constantly juggle what the brethren want and what we ourselves know is right. You really have to wrestle with your conscience sometimes in cases like this, because if you don’t, you’re going to be in deep trouble. There are no accolades for heroes here. You either keep your mouth shut and do what you’re told, or take a stand for honesty and find yourself immediately unemployed. Those, I’m afraid, are the hard, cold facts of life when you decide to work up here.” - Interview with anonymous informant, LDS Church Public Communication Department, Salt Lake City, 1983, as quoted in The Mormon Corporate Empire, by John Heinerman and Anson Shupe, 1985, p. 208

[JRochelle]

Is that thing dead?

[JRochelle]

You usually post the loveliest pictures, but these snake photos just won't do!

I can handle being called a viper, but seeing pictures is more than I can take. I admit to an irrational fear of snakes. I'll take a bucket of spiders over one snake.