Posted on 12/25/2008 9:13:44 PM PST by restornu
In Joseph Smith's day some of the most prominent Americans were disgusted with the creeds of Christendom. Thomas Jefferson said:
I [Jefferson] am a real Christian, that is to say a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus, very different from the preachers . . of the gospel, while they draw all their characteristic dogmas from what its author never said or did.
They have compounded from the heathen mysteries a system beyond the comprehension of man of which Jesus, were he to return on earth, would not recognize one feature. . . . It is the speculations of crazy theologians which have made a Babel out of religion (Saul K. Padover, Thomas Jefferson on Democracy, 1939, pp. 122-123).
Writing to S. Hales in 1818, Jefferson wrote: "The truth is that Calvinism has introduced into the Christian religion more new absurdities than its leaders had purged it of old ones" (Ibid., p. 219).
On Jefferson's monument in Washington, D.C., is inscribed: "I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." If his complete quotation were on the monument it would bring out the fact that Jefferson was speaking against the dergy of his day (Ibid., p. 119).
Benjamin Franklin, replying to a letter from Ezra Styles, president of Yale, said shortly before his death:
As to Jesus of Nazareth, my opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the system of morals and his religion, as he left it to us, the best the world ever saw or is likely to see; but I apprehend it has received various corrupt changes (Carl Van Doren, Benjamin Franklin, 1941, p. 777).
The first great work expressing the deistic feeling in America was Thomas Paine's Age of Reason, considered to have generated the greatest stir of any book of its day. It made clear that Paine was not an atheist as some claimed, but a deist because of the tyranny and bigotry he found in the existing churches (Thomas Paine, Age of Reason, 1793, p. 287).
Speaking of the period in America between 1670 and 1830, renowned theologian Paul Tillich has said, "First among the educated classes, then increasingly in the mass of industrial workers, religion lost its 'immediacy,' and it ceased to offer an unquestioned sense of direction and relevance to human living" (Roland N. Stromberg, Religious Liberalism, 1954, p. 1).
Carlyle has said of the Colonial Period: "An age fallen languid and destitute of faith and terrified of skepticism" (Ibid., p. ix).
Of this time Carl L. Becker has said, "What we have to realize is that in those years God was on trial" (Ibid., p. 1).
On another occasion, Thomas Jefferson said:
The impious presumption of legislators and rulers, civil as well as ecclesiastical, who being themselves but fallible and uninspired men have assumed dominion over the faith of others, setting up their own opinions and modes of thinking as the only true and infallible, and as such endeavoring to impose them on others, have established and maintained false religions over the greatest part of the earth (Peter H. Odegard, Religion and Politics, 1960, p. 110).
It is also true that in Colonial America only about 5 percent of the population belonged to any church and that those who did come to America for religious reasons did not come here initially to seek freedom of religion except for themselves. This is certainly an indictment against religion in Joseph Smith's day.
Peter Odegard also maintains this position:
Nowhere in the old world at the beginning of American colonization was there anything like religious toleration. . . . It is sad but not surprising to recall that even the religious dissenters who found refuge in America were, with notable exceptions, no more disposed toward toleration than the oppressors of the old world Obid., p. 9).
Historian William Warren Sweet says, "The rise of an intense anticlericalism was another cause of opposition to the churches." Further he relates: "The United States began as a free and independent nation with organized religion at a low ebb" (William Warren Sweet, Religion in the Development of American Culture, 1952, p. 92.).
Taken from treachings of a Professor at BYU in 2004:
Gentile; you can't say you haven't been warned about this.
AoF #8 is QUITE clear!
--MormonDude(When would be a good time for a couple of our HIGHLY trained young folks to stop by your hime and point out MORE error in the bible YOU use?)
(Are you SURE you didn't graduate Millet's class?? ;^)
You do realize that this is a standard LDS way of NOT posting evidence asked for?
"You were not NICE to me."
But you are not supposed to SEE one; but to PRAY about it.
I am not responsible for any written doctrine, no matter who the author is.
SOMEone on this thread claimed VERY close affinity to the authors of MORMONISM; stating that an attack on their words is the same as an attack on the poster.
While it's true that the ancient authors have RESPONSIBILITY for their words, but does that mean that BELIEVERS in those very words are logically able to wave it all away?
There you go again.
Using actual EVIDENCE to prove your point.
—MormonDude(Come; let us reason together...)
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2 Corinthians 11:12-15
12. And I will keep on doing what I am doing in order to cut the ground from under those who want an opportunity to be considered equal with us in the things they boast about. 13. For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ. |
Joseph Smith’s experience of christianity in new york was what was later to be called the “burnt over district.”
lots of churches were formed based on bad theology that died in about 10 years leaving nothing in their wake.
You need to read the constitution,now maybe if you lived in Cuba or Russia you could put me on a boat and send me off because I don't follow the party line. But this the America, and as an American I have the right to worship anyway I want. That is the beauty of these united states.
So with that said what hateful faith do you follow?
Dear Elsie!
How do you know I DON’T pray about the ability to see traps?
Believing (or not believing) in something still doesn’t make me responsible for the content of the written words.
And why should I be “required” to “post evidence” of something? Anyone can quote any author from any written works to back up what they say. If I choose not to, I’m subtly told that I’m trying to weasel out of saying anything. I suppose next, since I’m not “playing by your rules,” you’ll start getting personal.
What you need to understand is that only God has the right to demand an explanation of my actions.
Smith humble! HA! Thank you again Resty. I just love the way you slip this stuff in for us all on an otherwise serious thread. [AMPU]
Smith himself...
...as the biggest lawyer on earth...:
"I am a lawyer; I am a big lawyer and comprehend heaven, earth and hell, to bring forth knowledge that shall cover up all lawyers, doctors and other big bodies." (History of the Church, Vol. 5, p. 289)
...gordian-knot cutter and university math professor of all math professors...oh, and God is his 'right hand man'...
"I combat the errors of ages; I meet the violence of mobs; I cope with illegal proceedings from executive authority; I cut the gordian knot of powers, and I solve mathematical problems of universities, with truth-diamond truth; and God is my 'right hand man'." (History of the Church, Vol. 6, p. 78)
...Smith as the inspiration for Peter Pan...and the one who out-competed Peter the apostle, Paul, and even Jesus as Preserver of the church:
"If they want a beardless boy to whip all the world, I will get on the top of a mountain and crow like a rooster: I shall always beat them....I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet." (History of the Church pp. 408-409)
(Wow! He "majored" in humility!) (12) Times and Seasons, Vol. 5, p. 614
lots of churches were formed based on bad theology that died in about 10 years leaving nothing in their wake.
Well the restoration of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is still standing now in the 178 years gathering the Lord's flock upon the face of the whole Earth.
Those who have eyes to see and ears to hear know there Master voice! The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is restorted on Earth to build up the Lord's Kingdom by the power of the Holy Ghost preparing the way for the return of the Lord Jesus Christ!
I don't play defence.
It's MORMONISM that is in the spotlight here: NOT where Elsie may attend church.
(Neither does baiting.)
But this the America, and as an American I have the right to worship anyway I want.
True; you do - but that don't make the DEMONS that spoke to Jospeh Smith correct.
And just what 'bad theology' would that be?
You and the guitarplayer need to get on the same page!
(One is the GOOD cop - the OTHER one is the BAD cop.)
Nothing; eh?
I guess now there is nothing BUT LDS 'churchs' in that area!
....I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam
The operative word is MAN!
It was because Joseph Smith had faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and exercised what Jesus taught to those who have faith!
Matt. 17: 20.
20 And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.
“....I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam”
Pride. Arrogance. The same thing that led to the fall of
Satan.
Arianism, Pelagianism.
Arianism! Pelagianism! Rah! Rah! Rah!
Love that cheer at BYU games...:-)
There is none thing wrong in rejoicing Joseph was given a misssion from the Lord Jesus Christ and he fulfilled it!
None of us can judge the heart of another nor should one try to lable someone because one sets in judgement about how things should be done according their world.
Like the Lord said to the trouble makers if you don’t like His servants, than you truely don’t like the Lord either!
It is easy to hide behind a screen and point fingers elsewhere to ease one own discomforts!
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