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To: TexConfederate1861
The issue here, is not that we don’t understand, the issue is that the Latins nor the Pope had the right to make changes to the Creed, that was formulated by Holy Ecumenical Councils, and that ANETHEMAS were pronounced against anyone who did so.

The anethemas were not against those who changed the words but the meanings of the words. We have already established that the words of "and the son" do not change our beliefs at all.

The issue, it appears, is that the West acted without consulting the East. It is the sense of insult that remains in the East that prevents the union. NOT that the West changed doctrine.

Only on the Authority of an Ecumenical Council of the ENTIRE Church. That hasn’t happened yet.

The Creed hasn't changed to express different beliefs! The filioque is an expression that addresses the Divine Economy - something that was necessary given the problems in Spain at the time. But no new beliefs are introduced, merely a different emphasis.

However, I think I can understand where you are coming from and it would have been preferable to have consulted with the East at the time. To my knowledge, the original Creed is still recited in Rome during Greek Masses. The Creed WE say is for US. You don't have to say it, as it is an expression of OUR faith.

Regards

13 posted on 12/09/2008 2:53:09 PM PST by jo kus (You can't lose your faith? What about Luke 8:13...? God says you can...)
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To: jo kus; TexConfederate1861; kosta50

“The Creed WE say is for US. You don’t have to say it, as it is an expression of OUR faith.”

Well, Jo, the one WE say was established by the Fathers in Council for ALL Christians in The Church and until Rome and Roman Catholics share the EXACT SAME FAITH as the Orthodox Christians of the other Patriarchates and autocephallous churches, there will be no reunion to be had...nor should there be one.


14 posted on 12/09/2008 3:14:14 PM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: jo kus
The filioque is an expression that addresses the Divine Economy

But Catechism 246 seems to say the procession from the son is also eternal:

246 The Latin tradition of the Creed confesses that the Spirit "proceeds from the Father and the Son (filioque)". The Council of Florence in 1438 explains: "The Holy Spirit is eternally from Father and Son; He has his nature and subsistence at once (simul) from the Father and the Son. He proceeds eternally from both as from one principle and through one spiration. . . . And, since the Father has through generation given to the only-begotten Son everything that belongs to the Father, except being Father, the Son has also eternally from the Father, from whom he is eternally born, that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Son."75

15 posted on 12/09/2008 3:18:37 PM PST by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: jo kus

The filioque certainly DOES change things. It changes the entire meaning of the Holy Trinity. The Local Council of Toledo added the filioque without even consulting the Pope!
And Pope Leo the Great condemned them for doing so!

There is one Creed. Not two.


18 posted on 12/09/2008 5:17:04 PM PST by TexConfederate1861
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