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Shock: Evangelical Leader Believes in Gay Civil Unions, Says OK to Vote for Obama
www.lifesitenews.com ^ | John-Henry Westen

Posted on 12/03/2008 10:19:06 PM PST by voiceinthewind

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To: John Leland 1789; voiceinthewind
The NAE, National Association of Evangelicals, is liberal and apostate.

This guy and his association are great examples of why Sola Scriptura is so important.

This election has revealed that all Christian churches have more tares than we thought. If Scripture is the guide than we know what this guy promotes is wrong.

41 posted on 12/04/2008 5:51:19 AM PST by wmfights (Elections have Consequences!)
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To: P-Marlowe; voiceinthewind; xzins
My own litmus test is that no Christian could vote for Obama under any circumstances. His abortion stand is simply demonic.

FWIW, there are a lot of Christians standing with you.

42 posted on 12/04/2008 5:55:57 AM PST by wmfights (Elections have Consequences!)
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To: voiceinthewind
"We're not Catholics who oppose contraception per se."

Oh, that's obvious. You're just so...enlightened.

It's not much of a leap, actually, from embracing contraception (which all Christians opposed prior to 1930), to going soft on same-sex "marriage."

He thinks he's against that now...but get back to him in a year or two...

43 posted on 12/04/2008 6:58:28 AM PST by B Knotts (ConservatismCentral.com)
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To: John Leland 1789; Arguendo
Presbyterian Church in America because it is affiliated with the NAE?” If someone desiring a Presbyterian form of church order or government were to ask me (which has only happened twice that I remember), I would more likely recommend the churches affiliate with the Bible Presbyterians (HdQ. Charlotte), or the Free Presbyterians (HdQ. Belfast, Ireland, but with churches in the USA).

Are we talking about the remnants of Carl McIntire's Bible Presbyterian Church? They're down to just 30 congregations in the USA; the rest of them eventually merged with the PCA. According to Wikipedia,

In 1955-1956 a split occurred in the Bible Presbyterian Church. One faction eventually took the name Evangelical Presbyterian Church. A few years later this group merged with the Reformed Presbyterian Church in North America, General Synod to form the Reformed Presbyterian Church, Evangelical Synod; that body in turn merged with the Presbyterian Church in America in 1982.

44 posted on 12/04/2008 7:06:15 AM PST by Alex Murphy ( "Every country has the government it deserves" - Joseph Marie de Maistre)
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To: voiceinthewind

I’d like to point out to our Evangelical brothers that this is precisely the sort of thing that happens when a body of believers refuses to accept the authority of the Pope to teach definitively. When we reject the earthly authority left to us by Our Lord, we each become “a papacy of one”, free to believe and teach whatever strikes our individual fancy as “Christian truth”. This is why we see “Christian teachers” these days promoting contraception, abortion, female priests, infantacide, euthanasia, and other forms of Satanic rot “under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit”.

Those of you Evangelicals who are tired of seeing your leaders constantly redfine Christianity: please consider coming home to Rome. The Catholic Church doesn’t change her doctrines to fit the times. The Church is founded on the Rock.


45 posted on 12/04/2008 7:25:20 AM PST by B-Chan (Catholic. Monarchist. Texan. Any questions?)
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To: Sci Fi Guy

I agree. Doug Kmiec has the same position, I personally don’t see how it’s going to work. Birth control is universally accessible now, and it sure hasn’t stemmed the tide of teen promiscuity and pregnancy.


46 posted on 12/04/2008 7:31:15 AM PST by voiceinthewind
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To: Alex Murphy

Alex Murphy, is there a doctrine universally shared amongst Protestants regarding birth control and abortion?


47 posted on 12/04/2008 7:33:48 AM PST by voiceinthewind
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To: voiceinthewind
...is there a doctrine universally shared amongst Protestants regarding birth control and abortion?

How do you define "Protestant"? What non-Catholic, non-Orthodox religious groups would you yourself group under the label "Protestant"?

48 posted on 12/04/2008 8:39:25 AM PST by Alex Murphy ( "Every country has the government it deserves" - Joseph Marie de Maistre)
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To: voiceinthewind
You cannot be "evangelical" and "Give the biblical point of view a different slant."
Evangelical: “Of, relating to, or in accordance with the Christian gospel, especially one of the four gospel books of the New Testament. Of, relating to, or being a Protestant church that founds its teaching on the gospel. Of, relating to, or being a Christian church believing in the sole authority and inerrancy of the Bible, in salvation only through regeneration, and in a spiritually transformed personal life.” - American Heritage Dictionary

49 posted on 12/04/2008 10:16:24 AM PST by Sopater (I'm so sick of atheists shoving their religion in my face.)
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To: Alex Murphy

“Are we talking about the remnants of Carl McIntire’s Bible Presbyterian Church? They’re down to just 30 congregations in the USA; the rest of them eventually merged with the PCA. According to Wikipedia,”

One would have to go to the Bible Presbyterian web site and check it out for themselves.


50 posted on 12/04/2008 11:26:42 AM PST by John Leland 1789
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To: B-Chan

“Those of you Evangelicals who are tired of seeing your leaders constantly redfine Christianity: please consider coming home to Rome. The Catholic Church doesn’t change her doctrines to fit the times. The Church is founded on the Rock.”


You can say the Catholic Church doesn’t change doctrine, but that means little on the worldwide scope of things. The Catholic Church is not “Catholic” from one country to the next. It accepts the folks religions of various countries among its members, and allows the local cultures to modify the practices of the church to the extent that “doctrine” means very little to the overwhelming majority of those accepting the “Eucharist” in the churches. The umbrella is just too big.


51 posted on 12/04/2008 11:35:27 AM PST by John Leland 1789
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To: Alex Murphy

Hmm, good question.


52 posted on 12/04/2008 12:01:39 PM PST by voiceinthewind
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To: voiceinthewind

Further proof that the label, “evangelical”, no longer means anything!


53 posted on 12/04/2008 12:26:17 PM PST by LiteKeeper (Beware the secularization of America; the Islamization of Eurabia)
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To: CardCarryingMember.VastRightWC
To which Aunt Olive replied, "A born-again turkey is still a turkey".

LOL... And she is 100% right!

54 posted on 12/04/2008 3:20:56 PM PST by paudio (Conservatism is a word with various meanings. To win, we need unified issue and message.)
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To: voiceinthewind
Cizik expressed an obvious distaste for Sarah Palin, citing her stand on the environment as “ignorance” and accusing her of lacking in humility, a trait which he says he admired in Obama.

Wait, what?

:-D )))

Man, the stupid piles up so fast you need bat wings to stay above it.

55 posted on 12/04/2008 3:27:51 PM PST by RichInOC (Obama/Biden '08: "We Are Not Ruled By Murderers, But Only--By Their Friends."--Rudyard Kipling)
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To: P-Marlowe; Gamecock; Dr. Eckleburg; enat
P-M, we are not on this list. It's hard to believe since we seem to be on every list I run across.

These Protestant church groups were members as of 2008:


56 posted on 12/04/2008 4:44:13 PM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain, Pro Deo et Patria)
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To: Arguendo
You would seriously recommend Christians avoid a solid denomination like the Presbyterian Church in America because it is affiliated with the NAE?

The PCA seems to be heading in a dangerous direction. It would be a start to restoring its credibility if it were to withdraw from the NAE. Of course, it would do more if it would expel Redeemer in New York.

57 posted on 12/04/2008 5:50:08 PM PST by PAR35
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To: B-Chan

So you all don’t have to worry about folks like Cizik or Kmiec in the Catholic church?


58 posted on 12/04/2008 6:00:18 PM PST by PAR35
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To: PAR35

Sure, we have people like that. We just don’t have to take them seriously.


59 posted on 12/04/2008 7:20:00 PM PST by B-Chan (Catholic. Monarchist. Texan. Any questions?)
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To: PAR35
I've only been to one service at Redeemer, and I'll admit it seemed fairly liberal politically, but is it really too liberal theologically as well? It's been very successful in NYC, and if they can successfully communicate orthodox Christianity to New Yorkers I'll forgive some of the more minor complaints I might have about them.

Nonetheless, I don't think that's the church I'll end up attending in NYC.

60 posted on 12/04/2008 8:42:35 PM PST by Arguendo
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