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To: count-your-change
Are these lies and misrepresentations? Living a dissolute life and selling the papal office? Popes warring for their office?

Were there popes who were immoral individuals? Absolutely.

Did John XII sleep with his own mother? No.

Did Pope John XXIII reign from 1378-1408? Pope John XXIII died in 1963, so you tell me.

Did Gregory VII say that Popes "cannot make a mistake"? No - that's a lie as well.

And that's just a random glance at the contents of this garbage heap.

46 posted on 10/15/2008 12:18:09 PM PDT by wideawake (Why is it that those who like to be called Constitutionalists know the least about the Constitution?)
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To: wideawake
Don't be too quick to say, “lies”.

“Did Gregory VII say that Popes “cannot make a mistake”? No - that's a lie as well.”

Might this be a bit closer?:

“In 1075 Pope Gregory VII in his Dictatus Papae (The Pope's Memorandum) put it more bluntly. He set out 27 propositions about the powers of the office of Bishop of Rome. These included the statement that the papacy “never will err to all eternity according to the testimony of Holy Scripture”.

I haven't looked at the other examples you remarked upon yet yet but the paraphrasing was somewhat justified in this particular case.

61 posted on 10/15/2008 1:00:53 PM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: wideawake

Looking further in the Catholic Encyclopedia on John XII as regards:

“Did John XII sleep with his own mother? No.”

“On November 6 a synod composed of fifty Italian and German bishops was convened in St. Peter’s; John was accused of sacrilege, simony, perjury, murder, adultery, and incest, and was summoned in writing to defend himself. Refusing to recognize the synod, John pronounced sentence of excommunication (ferendae sententiae) against all participators in the assembly, should they elect in his stead another pope.”

No, his mother isn’t mentioned but the incest charge is just one of many. And by a synod not anti-Catholic bigots.

Hmmm.....As they say, two out of three IS bad, but I’ll give you John 23, unless he lived a very long time.


72 posted on 10/15/2008 1:24:01 PM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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