Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: count-your-change
This also needs to be addressed:

“the infallibility claimed for the pope is the same in its nature, scope, and extent as that which the Church as a whole possesses; his ex cathedra teaching does not have to be ratified by the Church’s in order to be infallible.”

It says “pope”, the individual not the office, so who’s conflating?

First of all, you have selectively and misleadingly torn this quote from context.

It is immediately followed by the following language:

"infallibility is not attributed to every doctrinal act of the pope, but only to his ex cathedra teaching; and the conditions required for ex cathedra teaching are mentioned in the Vatican decree"

It then goes on to list those very specific conditions within which the pope enjoys the charism of infallibility.

There is no conflation here.

The Church is doctrinally infallible. The Church cannot teach false doctrine. The Holy Spirit which guides the Body of Christ does not allow that to happen.

The papacy - an office within the Church - is also doctrinally infallible, because the papacy is part of the Church's teaching authority.

The popes - individual officeholders of the papacy - are not inherently doctrinally infallible and are fully capable of error. Only under certain circumstances and conditions - as described in the parts of the Catholic Enxyclopaedia that you conveniently omitted - does the individual pope teach infallibly under the charism of his office.

Therefore the original statement of the Dictatus Papae (which was not authored by Gregory), namely that the Roman Church is incapable of error, is entirely correct and orthodox.

The rephrased version you presented wherein "Roman Church" is changed to "papacy" is technically correct - except that most non-Catholics use the term "papacy" not to refer the office in itself, but to refer to all the individual men who held the office.

Thus the natural and non-technical takeaway of the average person from rephrased version is: "Pope X can personally do no wrong."

Or, as the original article that began this thread slanderously says:

Pope Gregory VII (1073-85) declared that "The Pope cannot make a mistake".

Something which no historical document written by Gregory or even falsely attributed to him says.

Popes make mistakes all the time and Gregory VII knew this as well as anyone else.

126 posted on 10/15/2008 8:56:37 PM PDT by wideawake (Why is it that those who like to be called Constitutionalists know the least about the Constitution?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 94 | View Replies ]


To: wideawake

see post #107


130 posted on 10/15/2008 9:18:27 PM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 126 | View Replies ]

To: wideawake; count-your-change
"infallibility is not attributed to every doctrinal act of the pope, but only to his ex cathedra teaching; and the conditions required for ex cathedra teaching are mentioned in the Vatican decree"

It should then be a simple matter to provide a list of "ex cathreda" teachings of the Popes, preferably from an official sourch.

I have never seen one. Have you?

260 posted on 10/17/2008 9:58:59 AM PDT by OLD REGGIE (I am a Biblical Unitarian?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 126 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson