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To: Gamecock
We are like the great Calvinist Paul, who recognized that he is the chief sinner

Well, now, that is a new twist on it.... I can just see Mr. Calvin, standing amidst the unbelieving Catholics of Geneva, saying in an absurd parody of John, "Your father Paul rejoiced that he would see my day. He saw it and was glad."

Who's talking ugly? You have, without Biblical warrant, accused me of being a Pharisee. Now that is being ugly.

Well, now, given that your behavior immediately brought to mind the passage in question, I am not quite sure why I lack "Biblical warrant". You clearly consider yourself more righteous than "that Arminian over there."

70 posted on 08/22/2008 6:51:27 AM PDT by r9etb
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To: r9etb

So we shouldn’t talk about distinctives here?

Sorry, but it’s the free-willer who stands there and says “I am smarter than the unbeliever because I “choose” Christ.”


73 posted on 08/22/2008 8:33:52 AM PDT by Gamecock (The truth of Christianity does not hinge on my personal experience.)
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To: r9etb

I don’t pretend to speak for Gamecock, because he has the Scriptural picture well in hand and can defend himself, but I really don’t think he is saying that he considers himself more righteous than “that Arminian over there.”

On the contrary, he is saying he is not more deserving than anyone. Being elected for no reason visible to man makes this a very humbling proposition to anyone who comes to Christ. And, I am out on a limb here, but I certainly do not think that Arminians are necessarily not believers. If God elects, He can rescue anyone. But, we do know that a lot of rescued men and women believe mistakes about the Gospel and about what the Scripture teaches. Further, some believers teach error, and are still believers. Doesn’t mean we should encourage it, but errors have been part of our problem for all of history. Paul confronted Peter about his error of retreating from the Gentiles when the Judaizers showed up. Read Galations 2:7ff and watch the sparks fly. Peter was clearly in error and perhaps teaching some error, but Paul said he was sent to the Jews with the Gospel.

So, clarifying a mistaken understanding and accusing another of not being a believer are two different things. Your words indicate you have been captured by the great Hound of Heaven. He sought you, made you alive from the dead, clothed you in His righteousness. Why must this be initiated by you to be good news?


75 posted on 08/22/2008 9:53:28 AM PDT by Dutchboy88
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To: r9etb; Gamecock
Family /sibling rivalry.

Aren't we brothers in Christ? Each living as best we know how in light of the scriptures to be imitators of Christ? Now Christ did say some harsh words to those that had perverted the scripture.

We are not to focus on the tares. We are to focus on the harvest.

“The fields are white to harvest and the laborers
are few.”

Luke10:2; John 4 35-36.

“Pray the Lord of the harvest send forth laborers to harvest”. Amen.

77 posted on 08/22/2008 10:26:23 AM PDT by geologist (The only answer to the troubles of this life is Jesus. A decision we all must make.)
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