You wrote:
“I never said that I relied on myself.”
You don’t have to say it. Protestants - by the doctrines they espouse - place themselves in a situation in which they must rely on themselves. Martin Luther, himself, the founder of Protestantism, knew this to be true and admitted it.
“Do you read all the words in posts, or do you skim over and post prematurely?”
I read them all. Notice, I, unlike you, respond to almost every single sentence one by one. You have yet to respond to the verses I posted. You still have never toughed Mark 16:16, or Acts 22:16 or Romans 6:3, etc.
“I don’t rely on organized religion to feed me spiritual food.”
You rely on yourself. That’s exactly what I am saying.
“I rely on the Bible.”
You rely on YOUR INTERPRETATION of the Bible. And let’s face it, who knows what the next Protestant, or you, will come up with?
“That’s hardly relying on myself.”
Again, IT IS relying on oneself. That is the ONLY logical explanation as to why their are tens of thousands of Protestant sects who all disagree on this or that but all espouse sola scriptura and use essentially the same Bible.
“You know, God’s Word, the Bible, which we are supposed read in obedience to Him.”
Supposed to read in obedience to Him? You mean illiterate people are in disobedience to God?
“How else are we to know how to conduct ourselves or find comfort?”
Simple. The Church. Christ sent the Church to teach.
“Apparently, after “debating” with you, I think God is trying to humble me, and I need to be more receptive to Him, and less reactive with you.”
Maybe. Maybe He wants you to be more open to His Church.
“YOu don’t think anything you said was offensive because you claim it’s the truth. The truth according to who? You? The catholic church? I am not subject to your churches teachings or rules.”
The truth is the truth no matter who teaches it. No sectarian is subject to the Church for they are outside the Body of Christ.
“If I were to get into a discussion with say, a Methodist. We may disagree with something petty that pertains to church doctrine, but we won’t argue salvation.”
You might. I recently learned that very conservative Lutherans think Methodists are wrong on their teachings about salvation. They’re both Protestant groups, but they disagree and disagree seriously.
“Yet, you did, you insinuated anyone who isn’t catholic is not a true believer. In the long haul we have a common denominator....a belief in Christ as our Savior. Why don’t we just rejoice in the fact that what matters most we agree on, and that’s salvation in Christ. Don’t sweat the other stuff, God can sort it out.”
Indifferentism. That’s what your preaching now. Sorry, I see no reason to sell out the gospel and Church after Christ died to give it to us just to pretend that there aren’t real differences between the truth and Protestantism.
“You weren’t as way off base as I? I will repeat myself, my faith is very important to me, and for you to call it into question was equally offensive to me. And don’t tell me you did’nt, you did.”
I didn’t. Again, for at least the FOURTH OR FIFTH time, I will explain this to you. Look in the dictionary. The two definitions in question are: 1) The theological virtue defined as secure belief in God and a trusting acceptance of God’s will. And that is the faith you possess and I never once doubted it and I never once questioned it. And 2) The body of dogma of a religion or a set of principles or beliefs. That you do not possess in that you do NOT possess THE universal FAITH of Christianity for that is a fullness of faith that is positively and negatively absent in Protestantism. PERIOD. I have explained this repeatedly. Yet you have repeatedly said I said the EXACT opposite.
“I wasn’t looking for an apology from you. You started again listing all the things I said to you, after I apologized. When someone tells you they are sorry, and you accept it, you don’t keep bringing it up again, because then it appears you haven’t forgiven them.”
No. An apology from someone who keeps doing the same thing over and over again (even after the apology) is worth what exactly? Look above. See “faith” vs “FAITH” brought up yet again? Why apologize and then go back to doing the same thing over and over again?
“And if I go by your posting you didn’t. I can assume, just like you.”
I don’t assume. I read your posts. The fact that I just had to explain faith vs FAITH again shows what I have been saying is true.
“You told the truth, I told the truth.”
No. Again, faith vs. FAITH shows otherwise.
“I had’nt looked at your full post until now. I’ll I can say is....wow. I definitely don’t have enought time in my day to pursue this right now, but you can be sure I will work on it.”
Nothing will change.
“I will admit, I do get a little passionate about what I believe, but the true message of salvation should be most important, and it is for me.”
I have been talking about the true message of salvation. It ISN’T PROTESTANTISM.
“Have you noticed that most of the strife in the world is religiously motivated?”
No, because it isn’t. Most is personal and petty. Religious strife is not personal and not petty by nature. There are far more murders in this world committed for non-religious reasons than religious ones.
“Let me clarify, organized religion, which is manmade.”
No. Christ gathered 12 Apostles. He gathered 70 Apostles. He trained them. He taught them. He commissioned them. That’s organized religion. Christ is God and not just a man. Christianity is not man made. The Church is not man made. Even the name tells you that. “Church” is from the Greek word kryiakos and means “of the Lord” or “belongs to the Lord”. The Church is not man made.
“Maybe, we all, as christians, need to get back to the basics.”
We never left the basics. Christ established the Catholic Church. He gave Catholics the scriptures.
He gave every believer the scriptures. Not just catholics.
“You don’t have to say it. Protestants - by the doctrines they espouse - place themselves in a situation in which they must rely on themselves. Martin Luther, himself, the founder of Protestantism, knew this to be true and admitted it.”
The operative word here is doctrine. Doctrines are dictates from man. How is it the Disciples ever managed before the organized religion of the catholics? Christ’s True Church started in Jerusalem. Martin Luther had an epiphany. He wanted the church to get back to the Scriptures.
“I read them all. Notice, I, unlike you, respond to almost every single sentence one by one. You have yet to respond to the verses I posted. You still have never toughed Mark 16:16, or Acts 22:16 or Romans 6:3, etc.”
You were as selective as I in what you answered. I have no issue with being baptized. I was baptized when I was a teenager, am I saved now? Even though I’m not catholic? There is no Scripture that says if you believe in Jesus Christ, but don’t get baptized, you are condemned to hell. If you believe that, then YOU are assuming something that isn’t there.
“You rely on yourself. That’s exactly what I am saying.”
Because I don’t take my orders from the catholic church I’m relying on myself? I never said I relied on myself. I put my faith in Christ, so I’m relying on Him. I can do that, can’t I? Or should I be clearing my faith in Him through the catholic church first? So I need their (church) permission to be able to believe that Christ died for my sins? So I should go to the nearest catholic church and ask them if it’s okay that I believe that Christ died for my sins? Yeah, right. God is my authority which is contrary to your misguided perception of the catholic church being the final authority.
“You rely on YOUR INTERPRETATION of the Bible. And let’s face it, who knows what the next Protestant, or you, will come up with?”
John 14:16 “And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Counselor to be with you forever—The Spirit of Truth.”
II Cor 1:21-22 “Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us, set His seal of ownership on us, and put His Spirit in our heart as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.”
John 16:13 “But when he, the Spirit of Truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth.”
Pray tell, where do you get your interpretation? From the Pope?
“Supposed to read in obedience to Him? You mean illiterate people are in disobedience to God?”
Get thee behind me, Satan.
“Simple. The Church. Christ sent the Church to teach.”
Are you saying the catholic church is your mediator?
I Tim 2:5-6 “For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself as a ransom for all men—the testimony given in its proper time.”
“Maybe. Maybe He wants you to be more open to His Church.”
I am more open to His Church. My dispute is with the catholic church.
“The truth is the truth no matter who teaches it. No sectarian is subject to the Church for they are outside the Body of Christ.”
Think about what you’re saying. No matter who teaches it? Then why do you have trouble with the Protestants? I am in the Body of Christ, yet you dismiss everything I say.
“You might. I recently learned that very conservative Lutherans think Methodists are wrong on their teachings about salvation. They’re both Protestant groups, but they disagree and disagree seriously.”
How do you explain the Charismatic Catholics?
“Indifferentism. That’s what your preaching now. Sorry, I see no reason to sell out the gospel and Church after Christ died to give it to us just to pretend that there aren’t real differences between the truth and Protestantism.”
Indifferentism? Is that a new word? You seem very bitter toward the Protestants. I am not a sell-out of the gospel of Christ. What’s the difference between the truth and Protestantism? Just use Scripture to back up what you’re saying, not something the Pope said.
“I didn’t. Again, for at least the FOURTH OR FIFTH time, I will explain this to you. Look in the dictionary. The two definitions in question are: 1) The theological virtue defined as secure belief in God and a trusting acceptance of God’s will. And that is the faith you possess and I never once doubted it and I never once questioned it. And 2) The body of dogma of a religion or a set of principles or beliefs. That you do not possess in that you do NOT possess THE universal FAITH of Christianity for that is a fullness of faith that is positively and negatively absent in Protestantism. PERIOD. I have explained this repeatedly. Yet you have repeatedly said I said the EXACT opposite.”
You have to go to a dictionary to find the definition of faith?
Eph 4:4-7 “There is one body and one spirit—just as you were called to one hope when you were called—One Lord, ONE FAITH, One Baptism; One God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. But to each one of us grace has been given as Christ apportioned it.”
“No. An apology from someone who keeps doing the same thing over and over again (even after the apology) is worth what exactly? Look above. See “faith” vs “FAITH” brought up yet again? Why apologize and then go back to doing the same thing over and over again?”
Matt 18: “Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, “Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother when he sins against me? Up to seven times?” Jesus answered, “I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times.”
“I don’t assume. I read your posts. The fact that I just had to explain faith vs FAITH again shows what I have been saying is true.”
Why stop at two faiths? Why not go the distance and pull some more out of your hat? One is doctrine and the other is faith. Are, these two faiths you have, scriptural?
“No. Again, faith vs. FAITH shows otherwise.”
Again, “One Hope, One Faith, One Baptism.”
“Nothing will change.”
I agree.
“I have been talking about the true message of salvation. It ISN’T PROTESTANTISM.”
Says who? You? The Pope? The Bible says difference. The catholic church hasn’t cornered the market on salvation. Good News is available to all.
Rom 3:23-24 “For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by His grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”
“We never left the basics.”
How can you see the basics through all the bureaucracy and red tape?
“Christ established the Catholic Church. He gave Catholics the scriptures.”
No, dear, Christ established HIS Church. And membership is open to(dare I say it?) ALL who believe, not just catholics.
Goodnight Vlad