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To: Forest Keeper; Dr. Eckleburg; Gamecock; Alex Murphy; xzins; P-Marlowe; HarleyD; wmfights
What's extra-scriptural is the claim that God loves all equally FOR THE PURPOSES of salvation.

In the scripture I quoted the reference is to salvation:

[God] will have all men to be saved, and to come to the knowledge of the truth. (1 Timothy 2:4)

Further, Apoc. 3:19 explicitly links love to repentance and chastisement.

I'm not sure how this [Mt 25] is on point

The relevance of Matthew 25 is that it explains the free will component of salvation: while God loves us all, some choose to do the works that He teaches us to do; others don't.

if God graces everyone equally for salvation what is it that then causes some to seek God and most not to.

Because some don't love Him back, as Mt 25 makes clear: "as long as you did it not to one of these least, neither did you do it to me".

867 posted on 08/06/2008 7:26:23 PM PDT by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: annalex; Forest Keeper; Dr. Eckleburg; Gamecock; Alex Murphy; xzins; P-Marlowe; HarleyD; ...
Because some don't love Him back

And you are better, smarter and holier than them.

BTW who made you better, smarter and holier than them?

868 posted on 08/06/2008 8:24:26 PM PDT by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*)
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To: annalex; Dr. Eckleburg; Gamecock; Alex Murphy; xzins; P-Marlowe; HarleyD; wmfights
FK: What's extra-scriptural is the claim that God loves all equally FOR THE PURPOSES of salvation.

In the scripture I quoted the reference is to salvation: [God] will have all men to be saved, and to come to the knowledge of the truth. (1 Timothy 2:4)

But is that REALLY what God will have? No, or else God is a failure. He is making an outward call as opposed to a decree. Outward calls are not backed up with action by God designed to accomplish the thing asserted. Decrees are. It is simply not true, and no one can claim, that God loves all men SUCH THAT all men will be saved. It absolutely IS true that God loves all of His elect SUCH THAT they will be saved:

Rom 8:29-30 : 29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those he predestined , he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

Eph 1:4-5 : 4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5 he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will—

Eph 1:11-12 : 11 In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, 12 in order that we, who were the first to hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory.

All of these describe decrees, God will act, He will choose according to His will, He will justify, He will glorify, etc. These match what we actually see, that some are saved and some not. And here, we also see that God gets everything He actually wants without being a failure.

Further, Apoc. 3:19 explicitly links love to repentance and chastisement.

Well sure, but that obviously does not apply to all men, but those who are already Christians, the ones He loves. Paul explains:

Heb 12:8 : If you are not disciplined (and everyone undergoes discipline ), then you are illegitimate children and not true sons.

Since obviously not everyone is a child of God (scripture available upon request), then this means that ONLY children of God are disciplined by God. Therefore, the passage in Revelation is talking about believers who fall away temporarily.

The relevance of Matthew 25 is that it explains the free will component of salvation: while God loves us all, some choose to do the works that He teaches us to do; others don't.

I can understand how your side would use that to show THAT free will is a component, but it doesn't explain WHY it is that some choose the good over the evil. What the Catholic cannot say is that God is sovereign and decides, as opposed to, men are sovereign and decide.

873 posted on 08/07/2008 12:23:44 AM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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