Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: annalex; Dr. Eckleburg; Gamecock; Alex Murphy; xzins; P-Marlowe; HarleyD; wmfights
FK: What's extra-scriptural is the claim that God loves all equally FOR THE PURPOSES of salvation.

In the scripture I quoted the reference is to salvation: [God] will have all men to be saved, and to come to the knowledge of the truth. (1 Timothy 2:4)

But is that REALLY what God will have? No, or else God is a failure. He is making an outward call as opposed to a decree. Outward calls are not backed up with action by God designed to accomplish the thing asserted. Decrees are. It is simply not true, and no one can claim, that God loves all men SUCH THAT all men will be saved. It absolutely IS true that God loves all of His elect SUCH THAT they will be saved:

Rom 8:29-30 : 29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those he predestined , he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

Eph 1:4-5 : 4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5 he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will—

Eph 1:11-12 : 11 In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, 12 in order that we, who were the first to hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory.

All of these describe decrees, God will act, He will choose according to His will, He will justify, He will glorify, etc. These match what we actually see, that some are saved and some not. And here, we also see that God gets everything He actually wants without being a failure.

Further, Apoc. 3:19 explicitly links love to repentance and chastisement.

Well sure, but that obviously does not apply to all men, but those who are already Christians, the ones He loves. Paul explains:

Heb 12:8 : If you are not disciplined (and everyone undergoes discipline ), then you are illegitimate children and not true sons.

Since obviously not everyone is a child of God (scripture available upon request), then this means that ONLY children of God are disciplined by God. Therefore, the passage in Revelation is talking about believers who fall away temporarily.

The relevance of Matthew 25 is that it explains the free will component of salvation: while God loves us all, some choose to do the works that He teaches us to do; others don't.

I can understand how your side would use that to show THAT free will is a component, but it doesn't explain WHY it is that some choose the good over the evil. What the Catholic cannot say is that God is sovereign and decides, as opposed to, men are sovereign and decide.

873 posted on 08/07/2008 12:23:44 AM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 867 | View Replies ]


To: Forest Keeper; Dr. Eckleburg; Gamecock; Alex Murphy; xzins; P-Marlowe; HarleyD; wmfights
But is that REALLY what God will have? No...

Again, being Catholic I read what is written in the scripture and believe it; you speculate and come out with God being according to you, either a failure or a liar.

The quotes about predestination do not disprove divine love for the reprobate. That God knows our will before we ourselves do, and even before we are born does not limit His love to the elect only.

ONLY children of God are disciplined by God.

Hebrews 12:8 says the exact opposite: "chastisement whereof all are made partakers". The reprobates do not respond to chastisement, but they surely receive it. "See that you refuse him not that speaketh" (v. 25) makes it very clear that it is the reprobate who refuses grace, not God who does not give it.

WHY it is that some choose the good over the evil.

Because some respond to the snares of the Devil, of course. "The woman saw that the tree was good to eat, and fair to the eyes, and delightful to behold: and she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave to her husband who did eat" (Gen 3:6). Did God not love her? Funny god you have.

877 posted on 08/07/2008 1:04:42 PM PDT by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 873 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson