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To: annalex; Dr. Eckleburg; Gamecock; Alex Murphy; xzins; P-Marlowe; HarleyD; wmfights
FK: What is the difference between a reprobate and a believer if God loves all equally and gives everyone an "equal chance"?

You are asking me to engage in an extrascriptural speculation in the pattern of the lying fathers of the Reformation. I decline, since we have clear scripture on the divine love for all, quoted in 842, from which we can, God willing, all profit.

What's extra-scriptural is the claim that God loves all equally FOR THE PURPOSES of salvation. You well know that there are different kinds of love in the Bible, as in our own lives. God could not love all equally for salvation or else all or none would be saved. I do not see how your 842 addresses the issue of God's love for all men in the specific area of salvation.

The difference you speak of is likewise explained in the scripture: [Matt. 25:31-46]

I'm not sure how this is on point. If I was a newcomer and asked you how God's love for all men worked and you quoted me this passage, then I would assume that Catholics believe that God doesn't love men at all and the salvation is works-ONLY. :) Obviously, the faith component is not detailed in this particular passage. We say that the people who do the works God approves of are the only ones who had true faith. Other scriptures explain how that works. The works proceed from true faith and are not independent of it. As Paul cites from Ps. 53:

Rom 3:10-12 : 10 As it is written: "There is no one righteous, not even one; 11 there is no one who understands, no one who seeks God. 12 All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one."

So, I was asking that if God graces everyone equally for salvation what is it that then causes some to seek God and most not to. Catholicism has no answer for this question. THAT would be a reason for your declination. :)

866 posted on 08/06/2008 6:12:49 PM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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To: Forest Keeper; Dr. Eckleburg; Gamecock; Alex Murphy; xzins; P-Marlowe; HarleyD; wmfights
What's extra-scriptural is the claim that God loves all equally FOR THE PURPOSES of salvation.

In the scripture I quoted the reference is to salvation:

[God] will have all men to be saved, and to come to the knowledge of the truth. (1 Timothy 2:4)

Further, Apoc. 3:19 explicitly links love to repentance and chastisement.

I'm not sure how this [Mt 25] is on point

The relevance of Matthew 25 is that it explains the free will component of salvation: while God loves us all, some choose to do the works that He teaches us to do; others don't.

if God graces everyone equally for salvation what is it that then causes some to seek God and most not to.

Because some don't love Him back, as Mt 25 makes clear: "as long as you did it not to one of these least, neither did you do it to me".

867 posted on 08/06/2008 7:26:23 PM PDT by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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