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To: wagglebee; Boagenes
Boagenes;

I respectfully suggest that you need to reread the Lutheran Confessions, especially the, Augsburg Confession,:

Article XI: Of Confession.

1] Of Confession they teach that Private Absolution ought to be retained in the churches, although in confession 2] an enumeration of all sins is not necessary. For it is impossible according to the Psalm: Who can understand his errors? Ps. 19, 12.

Regarding actual practice, it is much more common that you may suppose. The 250+ member/subscribers to the Rule of the Society of the Holy Trinity (comprised of LCMS, ELCA, and ELCIC clergy) have bound themselves to this chapter:

Chapter V
Confession and Absolution

Individual or personal confession of sins is to be kept and used by us for the sake of the absolution, which is the word of forgiveness spoken by a fellow pastor as from God himself. Therefore, members will:

1. Learn and adopt the understanding and practice of Confession and Absolution as described in the Augsburg Confession (Article XI, XII, XXV), and the Small Catechism.

2. Seek out a trustworthy pastor who will be willing to serve as a confessor and who will be able to be available for one's individual confession regularly and frequently.

3. Prepare to make individual confession by examining one's personal life and relationship with God and others in the light of the Ten Commandments. Also helpful are the penitential Psalms (6, 32, 38, 51, 102, 130, 143) and the Prayer of Manasseh in the Apocrypha.

4. In preparation for hearing the confession of others, make regular and frequent use of Confession and Absolution, keep confidences, so as to be worthy of the trust of others, read and reflect on the Holy Scriptures so as to provide a reservoir of passages with which to comfort consciences and strengthen the faith of penitents (see FC, SD XI.28-32).

5. Both as penitent and confessor, refrain from extraneous conversation so that attention is centered on the penitent's confession of sins, the Absolution or forgiveness of sins, and the confessor's use of Scripture passages which comfort the conscience and encourage faith in the Word of God which absolves; refrain from challenging or evaluating the confession; use the order of Confession and Absolution of the Small Catechism or that of the service books of the Church.

6. As absolved penitents, expect to be held accountable by the confessor for reconciliation with those whom we have offended and restoration of what we have taken or broken.

7. Confession and Absolution is a sacramental rite of the Church (AP XII.4) and therefore is normally conducted in church buildings where provision can be made for privacy and confidentiality.

Since Confession and Absolution has fallen into disuse among many of us, its restoration demands utmost care and concern for both penitent and confessor. Introduction to and initial use of Confession and Absolution may call for simply following the order of Confession and Absolution lest the penitent worry about a full enumeration of sins or the confessor about comforting and encouraging with passages of Scripture.

Time for private Confession is a part of every Chapter and General Retreat.

140 posted on 07/30/2008 5:29:33 PM PDT by lightman (Waiting for Godot and searching for Avignon)
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To: lightman

Thanks for the clarification.


141 posted on 07/30/2008 5:37:29 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: All

Praise be to God. This is a very interesting and needed read.

I’ve only read up through the first 50 posts, but some of the best Prot/Cath posts I’ve read in a long time.

There is a deep spiritual need for all Christians, despite our diffeneces in doctrine, to come together for three reasons:

1. Christ would want us together, despite differences, standing in harmony together as Christian brothers and sisters.

2. Christ would want us to fight the strong pervasive secular sentiment against Life, and indeed God Himself.

3. God is Light, Truth, and Good. Our world has a lot of darkness, deceit, and evil. I’m not talking about social gospel, but the Full Gospel of Jesus Christ. What we Christians know is Christ’s real Mission.

I hope that we can make distinctions between our doctrinal combat, where we each believe we are right with God, and feel compelled to defend and persuade; and our overall rightness in walking in Christ, together against literal Satanic evil that is enveloping the souls of our nation and world.


144 posted on 07/30/2008 5:57:38 PM PDT by rbmillerjr ("bigger government means constricting freedom"....................RWR)
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To: lightman
I said that in my post. It's affirmed in the Augsburg Confession, but it is not regularly practiced (I think most Lutherans of any of the denominations would say, "Confession, what?") by any Lutheran denomination, mostly because they do not believe it is a sacrament like the Catholic Church does. You'll notice that what you quoted says it should be retained, but they don't treat it as a sacrament any longer, and they also don't insist on enumeration of sins.

It's still in the confessions because Luther and the early Reformers were all ex-Catholic monks and such, and didn't let go of their upbringing easily. But scripture plainly shows that we confess our sins to God, and he is just, and will forgive us. In fact, they use one of the Psalms (see what you quoted) to support the stance that one cannot enumerate each and every sin. It's this part of Catholicism that causes such terrible guilt in most Catholics. We live by grace, we are justified by Christ. We don't live under sin any longer.

What drove Luther from the church was that he could not understand how one could be forgiven and yet still feel such constant, oppressive guilt. He was going to Confession so many times a day that the priest acting as his confessor once said to him, "Brother Martin, it is not necessary for you to confess every fart." It was this that made him turn to the scriptures and find there the simple message - we are saved by grace, through faith, not by how good or bad we behave - we cannot save ourselves through trying to be "good enough" - we can never be good enough. And before you lob out the antinomian argument, I suggest you read the Lutheran Confessions and the history of Luther's argument, because you can find all the details there that I don't have time or energy to even begin to start reiterating here. But Luther knew that "even while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us."

145 posted on 07/30/2008 6:03:27 PM PDT by Boagenes (I'm your huckleberry, that's just my game.)
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