Posted on 07/29/2008 4:39:52 PM PDT by annalex
Evangelicals have been going through a major change of heart in their view of Catholicism over the past 15 years or so. In the 80’s when I was in college I lived in the Biblebelt and had plenty of experience with Evangelicals–much of it bad experience. The 80’s was the height of the “Are you saved?” question. In Virginia, the question often popped up in the first 10 minutes of getting to know someone. As I look back, Isurmise that this was coached from the pulpit or Sunday school as it was so well coordinated and almost universally applied. It was a good tactic for putting Catholics on the defensive even before it was known that they were Catholic—”ummmm, uhhh, well no, I’m not sure, I’m Catholic.” Then a conversation about works righteousness or saint statues would ensue. Yeah, nice to meet you, too.
Thankfully, those days are pretty much over. We now have formerly rabid anti-Catholics apologizing and even praising the pope. Catholics and Evangelicals have both learned that we have much in common and need each other to face the secular culture with a solid front. But, where did this detente come from? I think there is a real history to be told here and a book should be written. Let me give my perceptions of 7 major developments since 1993, which I regard as the the watershed year for the renewal of the Catholic Church in the United States.
1. The Catechism of the Catholic Church, 1993. When this document came out, it was uncertain that even Catholics would read it. We should have known that something was up when the French version hit the top of the bestsellers charts in France and stayed there for months. The English version did the same in the US. Catholics were reading the Catechism, forming study groups and challenging errant professors in the classroom.
2. World Youth Day, Denver 1993. Catholic youth and youth ministers woke up. Suddenly, Catholic youth ministers realized that the youth loved the pope. And they loved him all the more because he did not talk down to them or water down the faith. He challenged them. Gone now were the pizza and a video parish youth nights. Furthermore, youth and young adults took up the challenge to evangelize. One of those youth heard the message and started a website, New Advent. Catholic youth were now becoming zealous for the Catholic faith in its fullness and were not going to be swayed by an awkward conversation that began with “Are you saved?”
3. Scott Hahn. While the Catechism is great for expounding the Catholic faith, it is not a work of apologetics itself. It is not written to expose the flaws of Evangelical theology. It is not written to defend the Church against the attacks of Evangelicals per se. It just would not let them get away with misrepresenting the Catholic faith. But Scott Hahn hit the scene at about the same time with Rome Sweet Home: Our Journey to Catholicism (Ignatius Press: San Francisco, 1993). I first heard his testimony on cassette tape in 1996. It blew my mind. Suddenly, Catholic apologetics, which is as old as the Catholic Church itself, got a leg up and there was an explosion of books, magazines and websites that effectively undercut the arguments of the 5 Solas. For the first time, there was a cadre of Catholics well enough informed to defend their faith.
4. The Internet. The Net started exploding from 1993 to 1996. I had my first account in ‘94. Compuserve was horribly basic, but by ‘96 I had AOL and the religion debates raged instantly. Catholics who had just been given the most powerful weapon in the arsenal in the war against misinterpretation of their teaching were learning to type on a forum while balancing their catechisms on their laps. Of course, online versions came out, as well. But, no Evangelical bent on getting Catholics out of the arms of the Whore of Babylon could expect to do so without himself have a copy of the Catechism, knowing it inside out and pouring over it for the errors and horrors he would surely find. Evangelical apologists were confronted with a coherent and beautiful presentation of the Catholic faith that they were ill equipped to argue against. They learned that Catholics, too, loved Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. The Catechism had arrived providentially just before the internet and had turned the tables in just a few short years. With the apologetic movement hitting at the same time, Evangelicals were also confronted with Catholics who could argue from the Bible defending their faith and demonstrating the weaknesses of Evangelical interpretations of scripture.
5. Early Church Fathers. One fruit of the Apologetics movement has been a flowering anew of Catholic interest in Patristics. This is happening at every level from armchair apologists to doctoral studies. It is suddenly all about Patristics, whereas in the 70’s-90’s the academic focus had been on Karl Rahner and Liberation Theology.
6. Evangelical Third World Experience. Evangelicals have had a field day in Latin America among the poor who are not part of the internet conversation and are distant from the study of apologetics. But, Evangelicals have learned from their experiences abroad an essential aspect of the Gospel they were missing: the Works of Mercy. Once haughty with their criticism of “works righteousness,” they have learned one cannot attend to the spiritual needs of the poor without attending to their bodily needs. Catholic have always understood this. Now, the Evangelicals are coming around. I haven’t heard an Evangelical Televangelist speak on works righteousness in many years.
7. Secularism. With the collapse of the Mainline churches as the backbone of American religion over the past thirty years (since about 1975), Catholics and Evangelicals are the only ones left standing in this country to present the Gospel. Secularism is on the rise and is ruthless. Evangelicals are now learning that only Catholicism has the intellectual resources to combat the present secular age. And, with the pope, we have a pretty effective means for communicating the faith and representing it to the world. There is nothing an Evangelical can do that will match the power of one World Youth Day.
With such an array of Providential developments, Evangelicals as well as Catholics have come to appreciate the depth and the breadth of the Catholic faith. It is far more difficult for them to honestly dismiss Catholicism as the work of Satan as once they did without qualm. There have been apologies and there have been calls for a new partnership. Let us hope these developments will bring about a new moment of understanding for the Glory of the Lord.
That’s funny because many on these threads try to convert the “pagan” Catholics by the verbal sword. You know, Christian charity and all that.
Religions still try to convert people. Just yesterday I received in the mail and hand written letter and a Bible tract from a Jehovah’s Witness. The letter stated that she missed me when she came by. She said they offer personal and small group Bible studies. Perhaps I should post a written sign declaring my faith at my front door or a picture of the Papal shield.
LOL LOL LOL - it hurts to do more LOL
What do you WIN? The booby prize? or ...........?
Thank your for your diligence!
God sees your lies.
The Roman Catholic Church isn't inerrant in any sense. Everybody makes mistakes. It's just that some admit it.
There was a poster here on FR that rail about the “Lutheran Sack of Rome!” constantly. That seemed odd to me, since the Protesting Estates never really got on that side of the Alps that much, let along Rome. Well, it did happen, but it was by the Catholic HRE Charles V who had found that the Pope of the time was trying to support some of the Protestant armies against the French! So you did have a army of mercs, some who were Lutheran/Protestant, invade Rome. But they did it at the command of the Catholic Charles V!
And just what "heresy" is this pope hard on? Please explain so that we can understand.
Thanks! Just pointing out the obvious contradiction in the arguments of many anti-Catholics who argue first that the medieval popes were incompetent and corrupt and only were in office for a year at a time, then, at the same time, argue that the Popes were in total control of every Christian in Europe for a thousand years, and responsible for every sparrow that fell.
I wonder, if the pope's were in total control of every Christian in Europe, why did he allow some of them to become Protestants? Is it possible that Protestantism is a secret plot by the papacy to control the world?
I can believe you or Christ.
I think I'll go with Christ.
And as I’ve noted before that as King of Spain and Holy Roman Emperor, Charles V was easily the most powerful person in the world.
He sacked Rome to establish once and for all that it was he and not the Pope who controlled Europe. It was during this period that the Pope was considering Henry VIII’s annulment from Catherine of Aragon and he would have gotten it EXCEPT for the fact that Charles V was her nephew and an annulment would have technically made her a whore and her children bastards. So, there was no annulment, Henry VIII split from Rome, DIVORCED Catherine and became head of the Church of England. The English Reformation was PURELY political, it had nothing to do with theology.
The reality is that European kings soon realized that a “national” Protestant church meant that they could keep Peter’s Pence for themselves.
That might work! Why not try it??? Go ahead- see if it makes a difference...!
Everyone validly baptized is Christian, so the vast majority of Evangelical Protestants are Christian, and further, can be saved like anoyne else through their works, often superior than ours. However, since they lack sacramental priesthood, they lack the assurances of salvation that come from sacramental life, and their houses of assembly or organizational structures cannot properly be called churches.
I think, His Holiness expressed that very clearly in the document that was recently linked.
The Epistle to the Smyrneans is a historical evidence of beliefs of the 1c Church. You made several historical comments on this thread pertaining to what you think the Early Church was like; here is what is was like in actuality.
We Catholics win the intellectual argument. The article describes how. This is why the opponents resort to slander, fantasy, and "LOL".
Many would prefer ignore to historical facts and use their own conceptions of the early Church and then model themselves after that.
LOL! Well, I guess when we think through it, that's what we are left with. Relativists, who do not start with God, will of course disagree. But we can handle them. :)
In addition I think that the value of the Church's estates had something to do with it.
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