Posted on 07/29/2008 4:39:52 PM PDT by annalex
Evangelicals have been going through a major change of heart in their view of Catholicism over the past 15 years or so. In the 80’s when I was in college I lived in the Biblebelt and had plenty of experience with Evangelicals–much of it bad experience. The 80’s was the height of the “Are you saved?” question. In Virginia, the question often popped up in the first 10 minutes of getting to know someone. As I look back, Isurmise that this was coached from the pulpit or Sunday school as it was so well coordinated and almost universally applied. It was a good tactic for putting Catholics on the defensive even before it was known that they were Catholic—”ummmm, uhhh, well no, I’m not sure, I’m Catholic.” Then a conversation about works righteousness or saint statues would ensue. Yeah, nice to meet you, too.
Thankfully, those days are pretty much over. We now have formerly rabid anti-Catholics apologizing and even praising the pope. Catholics and Evangelicals have both learned that we have much in common and need each other to face the secular culture with a solid front. But, where did this detente come from? I think there is a real history to be told here and a book should be written. Let me give my perceptions of 7 major developments since 1993, which I regard as the the watershed year for the renewal of the Catholic Church in the United States.
1. The Catechism of the Catholic Church, 1993. When this document came out, it was uncertain that even Catholics would read it. We should have known that something was up when the French version hit the top of the bestsellers charts in France and stayed there for months. The English version did the same in the US. Catholics were reading the Catechism, forming study groups and challenging errant professors in the classroom.
2. World Youth Day, Denver 1993. Catholic youth and youth ministers woke up. Suddenly, Catholic youth ministers realized that the youth loved the pope. And they loved him all the more because he did not talk down to them or water down the faith. He challenged them. Gone now were the pizza and a video parish youth nights. Furthermore, youth and young adults took up the challenge to evangelize. One of those youth heard the message and started a website, New Advent. Catholic youth were now becoming zealous for the Catholic faith in its fullness and were not going to be swayed by an awkward conversation that began with “Are you saved?”
3. Scott Hahn. While the Catechism is great for expounding the Catholic faith, it is not a work of apologetics itself. It is not written to expose the flaws of Evangelical theology. It is not written to defend the Church against the attacks of Evangelicals per se. It just would not let them get away with misrepresenting the Catholic faith. But Scott Hahn hit the scene at about the same time with Rome Sweet Home: Our Journey to Catholicism (Ignatius Press: San Francisco, 1993). I first heard his testimony on cassette tape in 1996. It blew my mind. Suddenly, Catholic apologetics, which is as old as the Catholic Church itself, got a leg up and there was an explosion of books, magazines and websites that effectively undercut the arguments of the 5 Solas. For the first time, there was a cadre of Catholics well enough informed to defend their faith.
4. The Internet. The Net started exploding from 1993 to 1996. I had my first account in ‘94. Compuserve was horribly basic, but by ‘96 I had AOL and the religion debates raged instantly. Catholics who had just been given the most powerful weapon in the arsenal in the war against misinterpretation of their teaching were learning to type on a forum while balancing their catechisms on their laps. Of course, online versions came out, as well. But, no Evangelical bent on getting Catholics out of the arms of the Whore of Babylon could expect to do so without himself have a copy of the Catechism, knowing it inside out and pouring over it for the errors and horrors he would surely find. Evangelical apologists were confronted with a coherent and beautiful presentation of the Catholic faith that they were ill equipped to argue against. They learned that Catholics, too, loved Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. The Catechism had arrived providentially just before the internet and had turned the tables in just a few short years. With the apologetic movement hitting at the same time, Evangelicals were also confronted with Catholics who could argue from the Bible defending their faith and demonstrating the weaknesses of Evangelical interpretations of scripture.
5. Early Church Fathers. One fruit of the Apologetics movement has been a flowering anew of Catholic interest in Patristics. This is happening at every level from armchair apologists to doctoral studies. It is suddenly all about Patristics, whereas in the 70’s-90’s the academic focus had been on Karl Rahner and Liberation Theology.
6. Evangelical Third World Experience. Evangelicals have had a field day in Latin America among the poor who are not part of the internet conversation and are distant from the study of apologetics. But, Evangelicals have learned from their experiences abroad an essential aspect of the Gospel they were missing: the Works of Mercy. Once haughty with their criticism of “works righteousness,” they have learned one cannot attend to the spiritual needs of the poor without attending to their bodily needs. Catholic have always understood this. Now, the Evangelicals are coming around. I haven’t heard an Evangelical Televangelist speak on works righteousness in many years.
7. Secularism. With the collapse of the Mainline churches as the backbone of American religion over the past thirty years (since about 1975), Catholics and Evangelicals are the only ones left standing in this country to present the Gospel. Secularism is on the rise and is ruthless. Evangelicals are now learning that only Catholicism has the intellectual resources to combat the present secular age. And, with the pope, we have a pretty effective means for communicating the faith and representing it to the world. There is nothing an Evangelical can do that will match the power of one World Youth Day.
With such an array of Providential developments, Evangelicals as well as Catholics have come to appreciate the depth and the breadth of the Catholic faith. It is far more difficult for them to honestly dismiss Catholicism as the work of Satan as once they did without qualm. There have been apologies and there have been calls for a new partnership. Let us hope these developments will bring about a new moment of understanding for the Glory of the Lord.
As I remember it, this Pope doesn't even allow that Protestants are good or Christian enough to worship in churches. Last year, in a document reaffirming what he earlier wrote, PBXVI relegated Protestant worship to that of communities or assemblies, but NOT churches, because only Apostolics can be churches in God's eyes according to his determination of what God thinks. The defective ones were the Orthodox, so at least they got second class citizen status. Pope: Other denominations not true churches.
Presumably we are going to have to wait for the next Pope before we are seen as anything more than wandering, churchless, heathen dregs (but they love us of course :). I love how their leaders will smile and shake your hand while simultaneously driving a steak knife into your eye with the other hand. Pass. No thanks for me. :) With this type of spitting on other Christians and the separation it causes, I'll bet Pat Buchanan LOVES this Pope! LOL!
I mean, I know intellectually that this Pope doesn't want to appear this hateful, but his people HAD to know how this would be taken, and they didn't care. That is fine, the consolidation of power has to be maintained with separatist documents like this from time to time. So what this Pope sows he shall reap, this article notwithstanding. :)
Aye, lately my heroes have become Athanasius of Alexandria, Patrick of Ireland, Boniface of Mainz, Martin of Tours, and Augustine of Hippo. The dissolution of the empire and Pax Americana so closely resembles their times. And we are beset by the heir of Arianism in those who deny the power of Christ the Son of the living God to change lives by calling sinners to repentance.
I'm sure we will get a bunch of long winded explanations of how our understanding of "defective" is wrong. At first all this parsing of the clear meaning of words is funny, but after a while the disingenuousness gets old.
My heart is truly with those poor souls lost in their man made labyrinth. All I think you can do is present The Gospel and pray that God gives them ears to hear.
No sweat.
Thanks.
Can you say "dark ages?"
Moreso, can you say it in Latin?
I could see this coming from a long way off. The papacy has not really changed at all. Pompous men always believe that they know it all, and those who don't agree with them are infidels (shades of Islam).
Pius IX (1846-1878) spent two years pursuing a policy in governing the Papal States and granted them a constitution (something that was never done before). Rioting in 1848 drove him from Rome to Gaeta, and he returned in 1850 to be supported in power only by the forces of the Emperor Napoleon III. Italian nationalists wanted control of Rome and the Papal States, so in 1860 Victor Emmanuel II captured all but the ciry of Rome and its suburbs. Then in 1870 the Italians entered Rome and Pius was retired to the Vatican grounds, refusing to recognize the new kingdom. This strange affair, called the "Roman Question," was settled by the Lateran Treaty. From this time on the Papacy was confined to the Vatican, which was now the Vatican State-the only land the Papacy held. In 1854 Pius had declared the dogma of the "Immaculate Conception" of the Virgin Mary to be an article of faith that Roman Catholics must believe. in 1869, before being confined to the Vatican, he assembled the First Vatican Council, whose main doctrine was the decree of papal infallibility. His reign was the longest in history and helped to define the role of Roman Catholicism in the modern world.
Leo XIII (1878-1903) found the Papacy no longer a power in the politics of the world, and without any lands except the Vatican grounds. Previously, Pius VII had a plan or tactic to enhance the papal character into one that would be popular with the world; that was followed by Leo at his inaugeration. he kept himself informed of what was happening in the various parts of the world and, in encyclical letters addressed to all Roman Catholic members in the various nations, he sought to form the attitudes that one should have in the modern world. He encouraged the French Catholics to suport the new republic of France. His encyclical, Immortale Dei, set the course Catholics should follow as responsible citizens in the new, modern, secular, and democratic states forming. The new government of Italy, being anti-Catholic, refused to make any conciliatory movement that would enhance the Papacy's image to the world. Leo now pushed forward against the attack on Christianity in general. he declared in 1879 that the philosophy of Thomas Aquinas was required to be read and studied by the clergy, and the laity were also included. He pushed for all to be educated and founded the institute of Thomistic Philosphy at the University of Louvain. He opened the Vatican secret archives to all scholars, and he reminded Catholic historians that nothing but the whole truth must be expressed in their work. No longer was the Bible shut to Catholics, but was encouraged to be read. In 1902 he organized the permanent Biblical Commission, and sponsored many faculties and universities, including the Catholic University at Washington, DC. The new tactic of gaining popularity for the character of the Pope was bearing fruit among the people of the world.
Pope John Paul II followed Leo's tactic and was a big success in creating good feelings about the Papacy among most of the world's leaders, and among his own flock. However, Benedict, now Pope, can't quite seem to get into the act all that well. He is of the old school - pushing for power over the flock instead of being the servant of all as one of the titles he supposedly wears: Servant of servants. Look for more stringent dogma coming!
Spare us your sanctimonious twaddle. You and your fellow anti-Catholics on this site are phonies and frauds, who enjoy baiting Catholics.
Can you say "dark ages?"
Are you somehow trying to credit Protestantism with the Renaissance and other cultural advances?
Let's look at a few facts (and please note that these are undisputed historical FACTS not opinion and conjecture):
- The rise of the middle class started with the Black Death in the 14th Century. The death of a quarter or more of the people in Europe totally reorganized society because it forced the wealthy to increase wages in order to get workers. ALL societal change in Europe can be traced to the decline of feudalism.
- The printing press (without which the Reformation COULD NOT have happened) was invented by Gutenberg who was a Catholic several decades BEFORE the Reformation and the Gutenberg Bible is a Catholic Bible. It is worth pointing out that, though German became largely Protestant, the printing press was the last major technological development to come out of Germany until the Autobahn nearly five centuries later.
- The Renaissance started in Catholic Italy BEFORE the Reformation and spread from there. Other areas copied and expanded on these ideas, but Italy was the catalyst.
- The exploration of the Americas and other parts of the world was first undertaken by the Catholic Spanish and Portuguese. The English, Dutch and others followed, but the major discoveries had already taken place.
- The only major Protestant world power from the start of the Reformation until the 19th Century was England. However, it needs to be recognized that the English Reformation was ENTIRELY POLITICAL there was no theological basis for it. Henry VIII and his successors broke with Rome, destroyed Catholics who resisted, but made no real theological changes.
I think it would be fair to say that the Protestant Reformation was ONE, and perhaps even a predictable, result of Europe's dramatic changes that began in the 14th Century. However, it is IMPOSSIBLE to credit Protestantism with these changes, far too many of them occurred prior to the Reformation and far too many of the later changes occurred in Catholic countries.
So all married Catholic men that abandon their wives and children for the 'church' will receive great rewards and eternal life eh???
Two things: If your good Doctor Justin Martyr's writings claim what you say, how does anyone know that your church didn't doctor up the Doctor's writings...Your church has been proven to have a history of such things...
And 2, just because J. Martyr thinks he saw something in the scripture that's not there, who gives a flip what he thinks???
I don't put any stock in what Joe Smith said either...
Great post.
I think the long and short of it is their history is that of a political entity that used religion as a tool of control. I believe it's roots go back to when the Italian aristocracy began to take positions of power after Constantine legalized the RCC's status. We are really just seeing this church return to what it has always been.
Hopefully those evangelicals that wish some type of ecumenism with them will recognize we hold positions that are not reconcilable with them.
Thank you for your wonderful example of how garbage in produces garbage out.
It is for me! :D Most folks would consider it an affliction, more than an hobby, I would guess. Finding others to converse with is an unusual difficulty.
But it is not the "heresy" that I am interested in- I might suggest that he who wins the war writes the history, if you catch my drift. It is enough, however, to understand that Christianity, heretic or otherwise, was there before Rome, and before the Catholic Church, as it confounds our current knowledge. One must then attempt to determine the source of these non-Catholic sects, as they stand outside the boundaries of known history. That is just tantalizing.
Part of it was (as you suggest) the early Christian communities were cut off from each other. Many of these later died out (such as in Britain).
Yet always a remnant, as the good Lord would teach us.
The other main source was attempts to merge Christianity with Greek philosophy.
Agreed, and paganism too... Hence Roman Catholicism, as it freely admits (now Christianized, for your convenience).
Thank you! You have something almost right. Changes occurred much earlier than you have stated. In fact, there were small changes constantly being created by those who would not accept nor bow down to either Kings or Popes all through the centuries. The 13th century, after the real dark days of religious attempts to conquer the world, was somewhat of a catalyst leading to a complete overthrow of papal supremacy in 1870 in Italy. It also led to men examining the scriptures more deeply because of the Greek manuscripts that were surfacing from the Eastern libraries that were not destroyed by the Moslems.
Trying to bring up all the history in this sort of media is doomed to fail, for it requires a person to study many, many years to glimpse what happened and put it together in one's mind. All one can do it bring up bits and pieces, and apply them to the current discussion for points, not scholarly discussion. You know what I mean?
Anyway, it's great to see someone realize at least a little part of the total history involved. However, in England, prior to Henry VIII's break with Rome, there were many churches in England that had nothing to do with either Rome or Henry's new church, and they were also established before the Reformation of Luther or Calvin.
You know, that actually happened before the 10th century at the order of the Hierarchy of the Church of Rome. During the 10th century the people were clammering that the church allow the priests to at least have mistresses because the priests were having affairs with married women which resulted in breaking marriages up among the members of the church. Again, that's just a little tid-bit of history that is not well-known.
The only safety I really feel is in the arms of Jesus. The world sure isn’t a safe place and so we need to dwell in Him for our security and peace.
Ecumenism is a worthless project. It's a one-way street with the purpose of influencing those caught up in it to convert to Catholicism and vice-versa. If one thinks it will do any good, they are somewhat deceived.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.