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To: wmfights; Petronski; Forest Keeper; Quix; Dr. Eckleburg; Gamecock; Marysecretary
Thank you so very much for your encouragements, dear wmfights!

However, (you knew there would be one) when discussing topics such as justification, sacramental-ism, or idolatry how do you do this without "hurting feelings".

The indwelling Spirit convicts us all the time. It could be a devotional that "hits home" - a sermon, a post on the forum, a remark, something we observe. Those kinds of hurts are very good for us. We all need them.

I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every [branch] that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. - John 15:1-2

If we convey the words of God - whether to our brothers and sisters in Christ or those who do not yet know Him - and hurt is the result, it is between God and the one hurt.

For the word of God [is] quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and [is] a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. - Hebrews 4:12

But we must be gentle and patient. IOW, we should not take matters into our own hands and set out with the goal of doing injury. If injury is to be done, God will do it Himself.

And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all [men], apt to teach, patient, In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; And [that] they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will. - 2 Timothy 2:24-26

The power, the spirit and life, is in God's words. And our honor, our duty, is to repeat His words boldly. The rest is up to God.

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are life. - John 6:63

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: - John 10:27

And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God. For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified. And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling. And my speech and my preaching [was] not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God. - I Corinthians 2:1-5

To God be the glory!

1,308 posted on 07/19/2008 9:55:07 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl; Alex Murphy; blue-duncan; BnBlFlag; Dr. Eckleburg; ears_to_hear; Forest Keeper; ...
Well and Biblically put. EXCELLENT points.

A slight quibble here or there . . . let me see . . .

Certainly the piercings of the 'Two Edged Sword" are necessary, life and eternal Life.

Ultimately and functionally . . . psychodynamically and spiritually . . . at some point even interpersonally, the hurt is first, foremost and lastingly BETWEEN EACH INDIVIDUAL AND GOD--CERTAINLY PRIMARILY AND ESSENTIALLY.

God alone can heal deeply, comprehensively, lastingly. God alone is the 100% true, just and fair arbiter of the facets and aspects of the hurt from all perspectives. And HIS PERSPECTIVE IS SUPREME in all such matters.

I think for most typical OFFENSES . . . the comment is likely to be . . . WHAT IS THAT TO THEE, FOLLOW THOU ME.

Some of us like to wrap OFFENSES around us like wounded bleeding hides of self-righteousness and then expect God to pretend that our bleeding hide of self-pity is a white robe of righteousness; give us our teddy bear; pat us on the head; hold us on His lap and provide the Eskimo Pie. I don’t recall Him ever complying with that expectation, in my life.

When His attitude is much more—

“WHAT ARE YOU DOING touching that offense in the first place? Throw it in the fire and follow me! I took far more offense far more excruciatingly for you--that gnat's burp is nothing. Throw it aside and get on the stick--follow me.

. . .

Interestingly, God insists that we first deal with each other before trying to transact business with Him. . . . leave our gift at the altar and go and be reconciled with our brother . . . then return and offer the gift to God.

“But we must be gentle and patient. IOW, we should not take matters into our own hands and set out with the goal of doing injury. If injury is to be done, God will do it Himself.”

This I find myself saying yes and no, to.

Certainly we are called to be gentle and patient. Though there is a time for the opposite of both--with pagans and with believers. We ought not to presume--particularly chronically--that patience and gentleness are NOT called for.

Yet, there are times when patience and gentleness are DESTRUCTIVE to the other(s) involved. Though I think it is crucial for God to make that determination, not our fleshiness--never our fleshiness.

And, if we are not willing rather to be wronged; if we are not willing rather to bear the hurt IN BEHALF OF the jerk, or the cur, or the rebellious one or . . . then maybe we are not the fitting one to respond with the opposite of gentleness and patience.

I agree that it's right to avoid setting out on our own fleshy agency and human "wisdom" with a primary goal of exacting injury and hurt.

Yet, the parent who wishes to spare the rod to avoid hurting the sitter will ultimately cause far more hurt in their avoidance to bring brief bodily pain. There is a time to deliberately bring hurt.

Yet, a goal--a focused goal of bringing hurt vs bringing redemption is likely malicious or sadistic. Deliberately hurting to bring redemption--WHEN HOLY SPIRIT LED--is not, imho, a bad thing.

Yet, let him who thinks he stands, take heed lest he fall himself into the same fault.

. . .

Humility is rather essential in such front-line undertakings. Though many times, most times, in such contexts, even humility must show itself tough, stalwart, authoritative.

Yes, if injury is to be done, let God handle the scalpel. However, many times, God will handle US AS THE SCALPEL. Refusing to allow God to do so brings us hurt and robs the other of redemptiveness and adds to their hurt.

IF we are broken and loving-heartedly, servant-heartedly, submissively willing enough, then the pain will be pure-er and bring more easily a redemptive result.

When we are not sufficiently broken enough; when our own fleshy agendas are involved . . . then our contaminants . . . uhhhh . . . unnecessarily trouble the process and marble the results.

My 2 cents.

To God Be The Glory, INDEED.

1,320 posted on 07/20/2008 3:21:36 AM PDT by Quix (WE HAVE THE OIL NOW http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3340274697167011147)
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