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To: Alamo-Girl; Alex Murphy; blue-duncan; BnBlFlag; Dr. Eckleburg; ears_to_hear; Forest Keeper; ...
Well and Biblically put. EXCELLENT points.

A slight quibble here or there . . . let me see . . .

Certainly the piercings of the 'Two Edged Sword" are necessary, life and eternal Life.

Ultimately and functionally . . . psychodynamically and spiritually . . . at some point even interpersonally, the hurt is first, foremost and lastingly BETWEEN EACH INDIVIDUAL AND GOD--CERTAINLY PRIMARILY AND ESSENTIALLY.

God alone can heal deeply, comprehensively, lastingly. God alone is the 100% true, just and fair arbiter of the facets and aspects of the hurt from all perspectives. And HIS PERSPECTIVE IS SUPREME in all such matters.

I think for most typical OFFENSES . . . the comment is likely to be . . . WHAT IS THAT TO THEE, FOLLOW THOU ME.

Some of us like to wrap OFFENSES around us like wounded bleeding hides of self-righteousness and then expect God to pretend that our bleeding hide of self-pity is a white robe of righteousness; give us our teddy bear; pat us on the head; hold us on His lap and provide the Eskimo Pie. I don’t recall Him ever complying with that expectation, in my life.

When His attitude is much more—

“WHAT ARE YOU DOING touching that offense in the first place? Throw it in the fire and follow me! I took far more offense far more excruciatingly for you--that gnat's burp is nothing. Throw it aside and get on the stick--follow me.

. . .

Interestingly, God insists that we first deal with each other before trying to transact business with Him. . . . leave our gift at the altar and go and be reconciled with our brother . . . then return and offer the gift to God.

“But we must be gentle and patient. IOW, we should not take matters into our own hands and set out with the goal of doing injury. If injury is to be done, God will do it Himself.”

This I find myself saying yes and no, to.

Certainly we are called to be gentle and patient. Though there is a time for the opposite of both--with pagans and with believers. We ought not to presume--particularly chronically--that patience and gentleness are NOT called for.

Yet, there are times when patience and gentleness are DESTRUCTIVE to the other(s) involved. Though I think it is crucial for God to make that determination, not our fleshiness--never our fleshiness.

And, if we are not willing rather to be wronged; if we are not willing rather to bear the hurt IN BEHALF OF the jerk, or the cur, or the rebellious one or . . . then maybe we are not the fitting one to respond with the opposite of gentleness and patience.

I agree that it's right to avoid setting out on our own fleshy agency and human "wisdom" with a primary goal of exacting injury and hurt.

Yet, the parent who wishes to spare the rod to avoid hurting the sitter will ultimately cause far more hurt in their avoidance to bring brief bodily pain. There is a time to deliberately bring hurt.

Yet, a goal--a focused goal of bringing hurt vs bringing redemption is likely malicious or sadistic. Deliberately hurting to bring redemption--WHEN HOLY SPIRIT LED--is not, imho, a bad thing.

Yet, let him who thinks he stands, take heed lest he fall himself into the same fault.

. . .

Humility is rather essential in such front-line undertakings. Though many times, most times, in such contexts, even humility must show itself tough, stalwart, authoritative.

Yes, if injury is to be done, let God handle the scalpel. However, many times, God will handle US AS THE SCALPEL. Refusing to allow God to do so brings us hurt and robs the other of redemptiveness and adds to their hurt.

IF we are broken and loving-heartedly, servant-heartedly, submissively willing enough, then the pain will be pure-er and bring more easily a redemptive result.

When we are not sufficiently broken enough; when our own fleshy agendas are involved . . . then our contaminants . . . uhhhh . . . unnecessarily trouble the process and marble the results.

My 2 cents.

To God Be The Glory, INDEED.

1,320 posted on 07/20/2008 3:21:36 AM PDT by Quix (WE HAVE THE OIL NOW http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3340274697167011147)
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To: Quix
Humility is rather essential in such front-line undertakings.

Indeed.

Truly God has raised up several men that others, observing them, might say were firebrands for God.

Seems to me that many – and especially those on the receiving end of their words and deeds - would think that about Moses and David. And yet we know, despite their outward behavior, they were humble men.

(Now the man Moses [was] very meek, above all the men which [were] upon the face of the earth.) – Numbers 12:3

And Samuel said unto Jesse, Are here all [thy] children? And he said, There remaineth yet the youngest, and, behold, he keepeth the sheep. And Samuel said unto Jesse, Send and fetch him: for we will not sit down till he come hither. – 1 Samuel 16:11

And we can see with both of them – and Paul, too – that God will keep the firebrands He has chosen, ever humble.

And the LORD spake unto Moses that selfsame day, saying, Get thee up into this mountain Abarim, [unto] mount Nebo, which [is] in the land of Moab, that [is] over against Jericho; and behold the land of Canaan, which I give unto the children of Israel for a possession: And die in the mount whither thou goest up, and be gathered unto thy people; as Aaron thy brother died in mount Hor, and was gathered unto his people: Because ye trespassed against me among the children of Israel at the waters of Meribah-Kadesh, in the wilderness of Zin; because ye sanctified me not in the midst of the children of Israel. Yet thou shalt see the land before [thee]; but thou shalt not go thither unto the land which I give the children of Israel. – Deuteronomy 32:48-52

And David said to Solomon, My son, as for me, it was in my mind to build an house unto the name of the LORD my God: But the word of the LORD came to me, saying, Thou hast shed blood abundantly, and hast made great wars: thou shalt not build an house unto my name, because thou hast shed much blood upon the earth in my sight. – I Chronicles 22:7-8

And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure. – 2 Corinthians 12:7

From these examples I assert that to be assigned the mission of firebrand by the will of God is to suffer by His will whatever is necessary to remain humble.

To God be the glory!

1,366 posted on 07/20/2008 9:40:42 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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