Posted on 07/07/2008 10:39:05 PM PDT by Gamecock
A caller to our weekly radio program asked a question that has come up before: Are Roman Catholics saved? Let me respond to this as best I can. But I need to offer a qualifier because I think this is going to be somewhat dissatisfying for some because I am not going to say a simple "aye" or "nay." My answer is: It kind of depends. The reason I'm saying that is because of certain ambiguities.
My point is this, I think that in the area of the doctrine of salvation, Roman Catholic theology, as I understand it, is unbiblical because salvation depends on faith and works, not just faith alone. This was the specific problem Paul addressed in the book of Galatians and was the subject of the Jerusalem Council in Acts 15: Is simple faith in Jesus adequate, or must gentile followers of Christ now keep the Law as a standard of acceptance before God?
I know not all Catholics would agree that this is a fair way of putting it, but I think that most Catholics would actually say the faith/works equation is accurate. Your faith and your works are what save you. I was raised Catholic and that’s what I was taught. (For my take on the biblical relationship between faith and works, see “Faith & Works: Paul vs. James.”)
Now, I need to add this too. Many Protestants feel the same way. Many Protestants are confused on this issue, so this is not a Catholic vs. Protestant concern so much. It's just that Catholicism across the board has more of an official position that amounts this, where Protestants have a more diversity of views, some that don't even seem to be consistent with Protestantism.
But the fact that one believes Jesus is the Messiah and that He is the savior, not our own efforts, is critical. If you reject this notion, like the Jews do, then as far as I can tell from the biblical revelation, there is no hope for you. That seems to be clear. But when somebody says they believe in Jesus and He is their Savior, but somehow works are mingled in with the picture, then I can't really say to you how much faith that person is putting in Jesus and how much faith that person is putting in their own efforts to satisfy God. If a person has all their faith in their own efforts, then they are going to be judged by their own efforts. It's as simple as that. If they have their faith in Jesus, they will be judged by the merits of Jesus. Anyone judged by their own merits is going to be found wanting. Anyone who is judged by the merits of Jesus is not going to be found wanting because Jesus is not wanting.
What if you are kind of a mixture? I think most Catholics are, frankly. Many Protestants are, as well.
I reflect often on a comment that was made by a friend of mine named Dennis. He was a Roman Catholic brother in Christ that I knew when I was a brand new Christian. He asked me this: "Greg, how much faith does it take to be saved?" I said, "A mustard seed." And he said, "There you go."
And so, it seems to me, there are many Christians—Protestant and Catholic—who believe in Jesus as their savior and have a mustard seed of faith, but are confused about the role of works. I think that Jesus is still Savior in those cases.
I mean . . . sex change operations not being all that popular in these parts . . . Mr Mom considered, particularly.
We understand.
From the RC edifice perspective,
only Protty Hate
is a joke.
And imagining RC hate where there is none is also not a joke
TO the RC’s
I object, as it is a misuse of the sacrament, and is wholly without Biblical support. One is to believe, be baptized, and wait for the coming of the Spirit. It is my estimation that many, having never been baptized with conviction, never truly experience the Spirit- Not to say that the Ghost cannot work in different ways, but by my observation, those who administer the baptism properly also tend to be those who have an understanding of the Ghost as well.
INDEED.
But I think something gets stuck in a white hanky every time they try.
Wonderful.
There’s a treasure of great music in both spheres.
Ahhhhhh, but The Lord knows there’s no hate in my heart nor mind toward any of the RC’s hereon nor any toward any RC’s elsewhere.
Praise His Name for that!
Then there must be quite a number of RC’s hereon that never get party invites from you.
Yes, that's so true. It's the old "no pain, no gain". :)
LOL. There ARE blessings in disguise.
I heartily agree with you on all counts. But some folks just want to do it anyway. How can we stop them? You can’t, and they won’t listen anyway.
Judith Anne,
Can you see how this thread has seriously degenerated into some truly foolish and banal posts, most of them according to the usual patterns.
Do you have some serious painting you have left to do? Anything would be better than this 8th grade tit-for-tat that seems to be the posting style of some of the “regulars”.
I didn’t remember how dumb some of it really is until I was off the forum for 4 weeks.
Actually, you’re right. I was wondering this afternoon why it wasn’t closed.
Completely inaccurate and very bizarre. For those who actually want to know the truth, instead of what some posters declare is Catholic belief about infant baptism based on a strange catechesis (not a Catholic catechesis) the information is available online.
The source I use for my quoting of the Catechism is from this web site. Is this version illegitimate? I'd be happy to use another one if you like because I know the principles I'm talking about have been confirmed by Catholic Freepers across these threads. As of the post I'm responding to, so far you have only been criticizing THAT I quote from the Catechism, but you haven't given us any substance as to why it is wrong.
Yeah, all the silliness, which I must admit, I participated in, is what made me get up from the computer, and go to my piano...so much more rewarding, considering the direction in which things were headed...
Actually, we should all get out more, with the wonderful warm weather now in full force...perhaps the hubby and I should make a day trip to Mt. Rainier, or Mt. St. Helens, and enjoy the beautiful scenery...or just take an outing to our current Capital Lake Fair going down in our town this week...
Sometimes just a day or two, away from all of this, and one can feel completely refreshed....
On the other hand, the hubby and I will begin our RV cross country explorations, all around, beginning, early next year, and I doubt I will be online very often...so I suppose I gotta post, while I am still able to...once we hit the road, tho I will still have my laptop with me, I dont expect to be online much...there is too much going in real life, on the road, in the RV parks, in the campgrounds, to be concerned with a lot of online chit chat...
No offense, and thanks for your thoughtful post, but I’m no longer participating on this thread.
I know. But it is our obligation to speak the truth. It is a sore point with me though, keeping me from membership in my current church. :(
It (infant baptism) is one of those things where many of the Protestants didn't protest quite enough, I think.
Nam Vet
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.