Catholics & Salvation; And the answer is: Maybe.

Stand To Reason ^ | Gregory Koukl

[Petronski]

"works-based salvation"

Not Catholic. The formula is "faith-plus-works."

[magisterium]

And where, exactly, are the footprints of this remnant you speak about, following a path from the 1st century to today? You have no such footprints because they do not exist. People often cite heretics like the Albigensians, for example, simply because of the fact that they were "against what Rome teaches." But they, and the other usual suspects - disconnected from each other by doctrine, time and location, BTW - had particulars in their doctrine that all modern-day non-Catholic Christians would be ashamed to associate with. Forget that these tiny splinter groups had no connection with each other doctrinally, they have no connection with your groups, too!

If you have specific information to the contrary, linking all times in the Christian era by way of some remnant containing a "pure" Christian doctrine that existed throughout all of that time without an extinction, please feel free to share at length your sources. Otherwise, you must consider that you might possibly be wrong in your assertions, and the guarantee of God's providence promised in Matthew 28 might have been preserved through avenues you currently find ...distasteful.

[HamiltonJay]

Don’t bother pointing these out to the Catholic bashers they fall on deaf ears, let them roll in the dirt with each other.

[DaveMSmith]

Preaching works is slavery to God.

Matt 20:25 But Jesus called them to Himself and said, "You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and those who are great exercise authority over them. 26 Yet it shall not be so among you; but whoever desires to become great among you, let him be your servant. 27 And whoever desires to be first among you, let him be your slave-- 28 just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many."

Just do a search in the New Testament how many 'works' the Lord and His disciples did. Then, Do a search on "follow me". Works we do are AS IF from ourselves, but acknowledged they are from the Lord. It's application of faith to your life.

What's that saying? "I'd rather be a servant in heaven than reign in hell?"

[Principle Over Politics]

How do you know when you have done enough “works” for salvation?

[DaveMSmith]

Don’t bother pointing these out to the Catholic bashers

But, their Bibles seem to have nothing before the Book of Acts! :-)

[Quix]

Naw.

Others have done a decent enough job on that in the past hereon.

No amount of proof influences addictive idolatrous devotion to a certain bureaucratic magicsterical committee in the least.

It's not remotely worth the bother.

[DaveMSmith]

How do you know when you have done enough “works” for salvation?

How do you know how much prayer, meditation or Bible study is sufficient?

Think of works as being of service (charitable) to your church, country, vocation, neighbor, etc. The question is how, not how much.

[magisterium]

C'mon...how about an "outline," then? Shouldn't take more than half the length of many of your other posts where you cut and paste umpteen Scripture quotes! There's the girl! You can do it!

[mysterio]

You know, as a Christian, I just don't get the teamsport aspect of organized religion. As in those guys aren't really Christians, those guys are heretics, so and so isn't going to heaven, etc.

The way I look at it, Jesus spent most his time teaching us to forgive and to help each other out. That seems the best way to follow him. I know I have room to improve.

But I couldn't really care less which sect of Christianity is the "correct" one.

[mysterio]

Additionally, for the sake of full disclosure, I was raised Catholic.

[Quix]

Naw.

You can read the thousands of pages on such threads and in a few months or years, you might find it.

Or, others can oblige.

It’s really not worth my bother.

[magisterium]

I would like to point out, for the record, that it was you, in post 37, who brought up this business about a continuous Remnant holding and transmitting some sort of "pure" Christian doctrine (contrary, of course, to that of Rome) from the time of the Apostles to the present day. I am asking you to back up your own assertion. It is clear that you cannot, even in a truncated, outline form. But don't take that too personally. No one else from your general POV can do it either...not, at least, without looking entirely ridiculous in the attempt.

It is amazing what some people will want to associate with their own beliefs in a disjointed effort to bypass the Catholic Church through the present Christian Era. But, in order to do that, the rather unsavory characters one would be forced to use to stitch together some sort of continuum in this vein should give one much pause, indeed! All the other attempts you are trying to ride the coattails of have failed miserably. If you have new information, please share it. You are hardly shy about writing (or cutting and pasting) huge tomes to the FR Religion Forum when it suits you! I'm not even asking for that. Just an outline credibly connecting a group or groups with identical doctrinal beliefs throughout 2000 years of Christian history.

Remember, you are the one who brought this Remnant up. Don't just talk the talk.

[Quix]

That’s rich.

Enough irony to build another USS RONALD REAGAN yet again! LOL.

[Invincibly Ignorant]

Ah...I find it entertaining when ya’ll argue about who gets to speak for God. Keep up the good work.

[Quix]

I try to avoid

telling

GOD

who He has to allow to speak for

HIM.

He’s obviously always done a good job of making those decisions.

[DungeonMaster]

Are they saved if they don’t believe in the term saved? For them salvation is an analog function on which one never knows where he stands. They consider it a sin to consider yourself saved from Hell and secure in faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

[magisterium]

You are not a Christian, by your own trumpeted admission. That you don't understand (or choose not to remember) how Jesus wished to transmit His doctrine to us, and how He desired that it be preserved, is of no concern of mine. The question of methodology shouldn't be any concern of yours, either. Unless you are some sort of Christian, you have no standing in this particular disagreement. By definition, you disagree with all of it. We know, already!

[magisterium]

I try to avoid telling GOD who He has to allow to speak for HIM.

No, you don't. You're perfectly willing to let this Remnant that you speak about speak for Him. All the more reason to document its existence, then!

If your assertion that God doesn't need to deputize others to speak for Him held water, then we would all believe the exact same things, 100%, concerning His teaching. That we don't clearly indicates that the Holy Spirit does not normally impose harmony of belief at the level of the individual Christian. There is a proper interpretive authority among His believers, working through His agency and inspiration. You know where to find it, you simply refuse to do so. Your loss.

[DaveMSmith]

They consider it a sin to consider yourself saved from Hell and secure in faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Not sure about Catholics, but I consider it arrogant to assume what my disposition is the next life is. The entire theology of 'once saved, always saved' assumes you know every obstacle you will face in your lifetime. Total lack of humility.