Posted on 07/07/2008 10:39:05 PM PDT by Gamecock
A caller to our weekly radio program asked a question that has come up before: Are Roman Catholics saved? Let me respond to this as best I can. But I need to offer a qualifier because I think this is going to be somewhat dissatisfying for some because I am not going to say a simple "aye" or "nay." My answer is: It kind of depends. The reason I'm saying that is because of certain ambiguities.
My point is this, I think that in the area of the doctrine of salvation, Roman Catholic theology, as I understand it, is unbiblical because salvation depends on faith and works, not just faith alone. This was the specific problem Paul addressed in the book of Galatians and was the subject of the Jerusalem Council in Acts 15: Is simple faith in Jesus adequate, or must gentile followers of Christ now keep the Law as a standard of acceptance before God?
I know not all Catholics would agree that this is a fair way of putting it, but I think that most Catholics would actually say the faith/works equation is accurate. Your faith and your works are what save you. I was raised Catholic and that’s what I was taught. (For my take on the biblical relationship between faith and works, see “Faith & Works: Paul vs. James.”)
Now, I need to add this too. Many Protestants feel the same way. Many Protestants are confused on this issue, so this is not a Catholic vs. Protestant concern so much. It's just that Catholicism across the board has more of an official position that amounts this, where Protestants have a more diversity of views, some that don't even seem to be consistent with Protestantism.
But the fact that one believes Jesus is the Messiah and that He is the savior, not our own efforts, is critical. If you reject this notion, like the Jews do, then as far as I can tell from the biblical revelation, there is no hope for you. That seems to be clear. But when somebody says they believe in Jesus and He is their Savior, but somehow works are mingled in with the picture, then I can't really say to you how much faith that person is putting in Jesus and how much faith that person is putting in their own efforts to satisfy God. If a person has all their faith in their own efforts, then they are going to be judged by their own efforts. It's as simple as that. If they have their faith in Jesus, they will be judged by the merits of Jesus. Anyone judged by their own merits is going to be found wanting. Anyone who is judged by the merits of Jesus is not going to be found wanting because Jesus is not wanting.
What if you are kind of a mixture? I think most Catholics are, frankly. Many Protestants are, as well.
I reflect often on a comment that was made by a friend of mine named Dennis. He was a Roman Catholic brother in Christ that I knew when I was a brand new Christian. He asked me this: "Greg, how much faith does it take to be saved?" I said, "A mustard seed." And he said, "There you go."
And so, it seems to me, there are many Christians—Protestant and Catholic—who believe in Jesus as their savior and have a mustard seed of faith, but are confused about the role of works. I think that Jesus is still Savior in those cases.
Back on the religious threads eh? Lol. Have the religion moderator pull your previous opus.
If they don’t understand something it can’t be true, you know what I mean?
LOL! AMEN to that!
Oh, Hi, II.
Yes, periodically I get really annoyed, and take a break. Next time, the protties will KNOW not to get their hopes up. Sooner or later, they’ll say something so outrageous I’ll have to come back and post again.
*sigh*
Yet several of them obviously understand flying saucers and demonic UFO's. LOL.
They're very good at memorizing snatches of Scripture but instead of using that knowledge to illuminate they use it as a bludgeon to beat their opponents with. They need to learn a little about logic and take a more reasoned approach to Holy Scripture, but I don't expect anything like that anytime soon. God gave us Holy Scripture but he also gave us a mind and free will...no matter what the Calvinists say.
I see a curious phrase being thrown around by Protestants: they "hate error". I looked around for a source... google, searching the Bible, nothing.
Hating anything is negative, hurtful and destructive. It's practiced mostly by the group claiming to have no charity as part of faith, not surprisingly. If called on it, they claim love.
I think what you are seeing is classic projection.
It is used in the hands of men who lie, and that is what has been sold to you. Satan quotes Scripture too.
ROFL!
Ya think?
Well, we could say the same about the group of men in your hierarchy who translate for all of you. How do you know they aren’t lying? You don’t.
WHAT is wrong now, Judith Anne? Everything we write is anathema to you. Nobody is being arrogant. Truth is truth. Go away and quit bugging me. Please don’t post to me any longer. I choose to ignore you.
Leave the thread.
Now there’s a thoughtful, well-considered response!
Incidentally, I don’t think Christ will lose any of His sheep either. He from the beginning of time knew who would choose Him and who wouldn’t. But we don’t lose one iota of free will on that account—the choice is still ours.
That is the orthodox faith.
Well, you're switching parables on me now. :)
Of course Christ says faith is what saves. I'm not disputing that whatsoever. I'm disputing the claim that faith is the ONLY thing that saves. The blind man at the pool of Siloam had faith...and, to ask my question again, what if he had refused to obey Christ's instructions on how and where to wash? The man who has faith but does not cooperate with the will of God is not saved. I think that's clear.
Bow your head and accept the spiritual 2x4 of love.
I've notice you did not answer whether you believe faith to be a gift of God. That is not a surprise.
What does "wrong" entail? If we define "wrong" as anything but 5 point Calvinism, I think we're gonna have a tough time making that case historically. Augustine was the only person who even came close to that...and he didn't even go all the way. And I'm not sure, but I believe that view was a minority even within the Reformation.
To some extent you're right, Old Scratch sows his corruption even among religious folks. But there's a difference. God never promised the indefectibility of the Jews...but Christ promised the indefectibility of the Church. :)
Of course! Charity covers a multitude of sins, schism and heresy among them. :)
I believe there is ample evidence to suggest the “5-points” were the view of the original early western church. I would just ask you the same question I asked Petronski; is faith a gift from God or not? It is a question that I believe is worth exploring.
That is not a surprise either.
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