Posted on 07/07/2008 10:39:05 PM PDT by Gamecock
A caller to our weekly radio program asked a question that has come up before: Are Roman Catholics saved? Let me respond to this as best I can. But I need to offer a qualifier because I think this is going to be somewhat dissatisfying for some because I am not going to say a simple "aye" or "nay." My answer is: It kind of depends. The reason I'm saying that is because of certain ambiguities.
My point is this, I think that in the area of the doctrine of salvation, Roman Catholic theology, as I understand it, is unbiblical because salvation depends on faith and works, not just faith alone. This was the specific problem Paul addressed in the book of Galatians and was the subject of the Jerusalem Council in Acts 15: Is simple faith in Jesus adequate, or must gentile followers of Christ now keep the Law as a standard of acceptance before God?
I know not all Catholics would agree that this is a fair way of putting it, but I think that most Catholics would actually say the faith/works equation is accurate. Your faith and your works are what save you. I was raised Catholic and that’s what I was taught. (For my take on the biblical relationship between faith and works, see “Faith & Works: Paul vs. James.”)
Now, I need to add this too. Many Protestants feel the same way. Many Protestants are confused on this issue, so this is not a Catholic vs. Protestant concern so much. It's just that Catholicism across the board has more of an official position that amounts this, where Protestants have a more diversity of views, some that don't even seem to be consistent with Protestantism.
But the fact that one believes Jesus is the Messiah and that He is the savior, not our own efforts, is critical. If you reject this notion, like the Jews do, then as far as I can tell from the biblical revelation, there is no hope for you. That seems to be clear. But when somebody says they believe in Jesus and He is their Savior, but somehow works are mingled in with the picture, then I can't really say to you how much faith that person is putting in Jesus and how much faith that person is putting in their own efforts to satisfy God. If a person has all their faith in their own efforts, then they are going to be judged by their own efforts. It's as simple as that. If they have their faith in Jesus, they will be judged by the merits of Jesus. Anyone judged by their own merits is going to be found wanting. Anyone who is judged by the merits of Jesus is not going to be found wanting because Jesus is not wanting.
What if you are kind of a mixture? I think most Catholics are, frankly. Many Protestants are, as well.
I reflect often on a comment that was made by a friend of mine named Dennis. He was a Roman Catholic brother in Christ that I knew when I was a brand new Christian. He asked me this: "Greg, how much faith does it take to be saved?" I said, "A mustard seed." And he said, "There you go."
And so, it seems to me, there are many Christians—Protestant and Catholic—who believe in Jesus as their savior and have a mustard seed of faith, but are confused about the role of works. I think that Jesus is still Savior in those cases.
Free will is God’s gift to all men.
There is no contradiction in the two paragraphs from the CCC posted in 1802.
Discuss the issues all you want, but do NOT make it personal.
"Once again you have incorrectly stated that all Protestants dismiss the significance of Baptism."
This is either a lie or an error of your typing skills. I said nothing remotely like that.
NO Protestant dismisses the significance of Baptism.
You should try to post with more precision. Or else people will just ignore your posts entirely as being ficticious.
Well, perhaps my thought processes are just too slow for some, I guess....I dont apologize for that...what may appear to be so, to you, may not be so clear cut to me....what may appear to be so, with others who oppose you, may also not be as clear cut to me....
Each side says they are the ones who are right, everyone else is wrong....each side backs up their claims with Biblical Scripures, and other materials....
I assure you, there are many like me out there, searching for answers...one cannot snap their fingers, and expect those of us who are searching, to immediately agree with one side or another...
And each side, does at times, misrepresent what the other side actually does believe...if I were to believe some FR Catholics, all Protestants, spend their time in church playing with poisonous snakes, and drinking poison....If I were to believe some FR Protestants, all Catholics had literally turned Mary into God....both positions, are things said, perhaps in anger, but still, they are said, and as such, the reveal what the opposition thinks of the other side....
So I really do not understand, what the problem really is, with cautiously considering what everyone has to say...I sift out what I consider to be nothing but worthless posts, and try to concentrate and consider the worthwhile posts, which actually present points worth study and consideration....
Perhaps my methodology is not the way others would chose to go about things, but there you have it....I am doing the best I can, and for that I will not apologize...
I don't either, but if you look, I used the word church, not Church. THIS church is extraordinarily significant to Protestants, otherwise people wouldn't travel to see it.
If you can't, then the original charge of your habitual inability to support your statements stands.
Amen, my elect elder brother. 8~)
Some folks have a fascination with archetecture and statuary who aren’t the least bit RELIGIOUS or not THAT religious or have nothing to do with THAT religion.
Prove to you, with you as judge?
Riiight.
That's all well and good; however, the significance of Castle Church IS NOT architecture, it is religious and specifically Protestant (not just Lutheran).
You will never get them to condemn the “idolatrous” nature of statuary in a protestant church.
(Eph 1:22-23) “And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, {23} Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.”
(Eph 5:25) “Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;”
(Col 1:18) “And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.”
(Gal 6:10) “As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.”
Incorrect, SOME Protestants DO NOT believe that Baptism removes Original Sin. I consider this dismissive.
You should try to post with more precision.
This from someone who believes all Protestants believe as Calvinists do.
That's rich from someone whose posts on Catholicism are routinely inaccurate.
Sadly, this is the fortune cookie raison d'etre of the modern age.
A smart man would wonder how something that has at least a 50-50 chance of sending a person to hell for all eternity could be called, by any stretch of the imagination, a "gift."
The "gift" is grace, Petronski. Redeeming, transformative, life-changing grace.
And grace accomplishes all that God intends.
This particular is arguably the “birthplace” of Protestantism. One would think that there would be an outcry of demands to remove these statues.
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