Posted on 07/07/2008 10:39:05 PM PDT by Gamecock
A caller to our weekly radio program asked a question that has come up before: Are Roman Catholics saved? Let me respond to this as best I can. But I need to offer a qualifier because I think this is going to be somewhat dissatisfying for some because I am not going to say a simple "aye" or "nay." My answer is: It kind of depends. The reason I'm saying that is because of certain ambiguities.
My point is this, I think that in the area of the doctrine of salvation, Roman Catholic theology, as I understand it, is unbiblical because salvation depends on faith and works, not just faith alone. This was the specific problem Paul addressed in the book of Galatians and was the subject of the Jerusalem Council in Acts 15: Is simple faith in Jesus adequate, or must gentile followers of Christ now keep the Law as a standard of acceptance before God?
I know not all Catholics would agree that this is a fair way of putting it, but I think that most Catholics would actually say the faith/works equation is accurate. Your faith and your works are what save you. I was raised Catholic and that’s what I was taught. (For my take on the biblical relationship between faith and works, see “Faith & Works: Paul vs. James.”)
Now, I need to add this too. Many Protestants feel the same way. Many Protestants are confused on this issue, so this is not a Catholic vs. Protestant concern so much. It's just that Catholicism across the board has more of an official position that amounts this, where Protestants have a more diversity of views, some that don't even seem to be consistent with Protestantism.
But the fact that one believes Jesus is the Messiah and that He is the savior, not our own efforts, is critical. If you reject this notion, like the Jews do, then as far as I can tell from the biblical revelation, there is no hope for you. That seems to be clear. But when somebody says they believe in Jesus and He is their Savior, but somehow works are mingled in with the picture, then I can't really say to you how much faith that person is putting in Jesus and how much faith that person is putting in their own efforts to satisfy God. If a person has all their faith in their own efforts, then they are going to be judged by their own efforts. It's as simple as that. If they have their faith in Jesus, they will be judged by the merits of Jesus. Anyone judged by their own merits is going to be found wanting. Anyone who is judged by the merits of Jesus is not going to be found wanting because Jesus is not wanting.
What if you are kind of a mixture? I think most Catholics are, frankly. Many Protestants are, as well.
I reflect often on a comment that was made by a friend of mine named Dennis. He was a Roman Catholic brother in Christ that I knew when I was a brand new Christian. He asked me this: "Greg, how much faith does it take to be saved?" I said, "A mustard seed." And he said, "There you go."
And so, it seems to me, there are many Christians—Protestant and Catholic—who believe in Jesus as their savior and have a mustard seed of faith, but are confused about the role of works. I think that Jesus is still Savior in those cases.
How much thought and Biblical study does it take to understand that Mary is not a "co-redemptrix" or a "dispensatrix of all graces" or a "mediator between God and men" when Scripture tells us those titles are reserved for Christ alone?
Or that no man is infallible and the head of Christ's church on earth other than Jesus Christ?
If you want to wash the context from Scripture, that kind of hopscotch is an easy first step.
11 And not only so: but also we glory in God, through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received reconciliation.Romans 5:11-21
12 Wherefore as by one man sin entered into this world and by sin death: and so death passed upon all men, in whom all have sinned. 13 For until the law sin was in the world: but sin was not imputed, when the law was not. 14 But death reigned from Adam unto Moses, even over them also who have not sinned, after the similitude of the transgression of Adam, who is a figure of him who was to come.
15 But not as the offence, so also the gift. For if by the offence of one, many died: much more the grace of God and the gift, by the grace of one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. 16 And not as it was by one sin, so also is the gift. For judgment indeed was by one unto condemnation: but grace is of many offences unto justification. 17 For if by one man's offence death reigned through one; much more they who receive abundance of grace and of the gift and of justice shall reign in life through one, Jesus Christ. 18 Therefore, as by the offence of one, unto all men to condemnation: so also by the justice of one, unto all men to justification of life.
19 For as by the disobedience of one man, many were made sinners: so also by the obedience of one, many shall be made just. 20 Now the law entered in that sin might abound. And where sin abounded, grace did more abound. 21 That as sin hath reigned to death: so also grace might reign by justice unto life everlasting, through Jesus Christ our Lord.
In fairness, he dumped all over most Protestants, too.
That was pretty lame.
Not one mention of sola scriptura and nothing even approaching support for that heresy. LOL...
Nice try.
ROTFL who's too ashamed, dear heart?
No, you attempted to distinguish Catholic and Protestant beliefs regarding Baptism.
Many Protestants (especially of the Lutheran and Anglican tradition) have beliefs regarding Baptism that are indistinguishable from Catholicism.
You obviously didn't read my post, or else you're just providing the thread with false accusations because you've got nothing better to do.
No, I was simply pointing out that many on these threads would like to believe that there is unanimity of Protestant beliefs and this is simply false.
The ability repent - to recognize sin and feel remorse for disobeying the Triune God and desire to sin no more - is a gift from God given to those who are His.
INDEED.
lol. Contradiction, thy name is Rome.
Thanks, Dear Heart,
It’s so thoughtful when folks advertise their . . . natural bents so vividly.
Of course, you haven't. You refute nothing I said, and the "context" simply supports what I wrote.
As God wills.
Nothing in CCC 1037 contradicts the fact that the forgiveness and erasure of original sin at Baptism is permanent, not temporary, in contrast to her claim: ...which purports to (only temporarily) erase original sin....
THERE IS NO CATHOLIC TEACHING WHICH IS SO CLEAR IT CANNOT BE DENIED, MODIFIED, OR REINTERPRETED AS REQUIRED BY ANTI-CATHOLIC BIGOTS WHO WISH TO DENIGRATE, DEPRECATE, DISTORT AND DEFAME THE CATHOLIC CHURCH AND HER TEACHINGS.
I knew you’d come through. Thanks for posting VI. They knew how to identify error in those days.
I’ve proven that the tight four sentence passage you posted does not bear the same meaning when the verses are posted in order and entirety.
They might do so if the Lutheran "Pope" declared they must be subject to him for salvation.
Well, why not ask one who has gone through the process to be a ruling elder by the PCA....
CHAPTER XXVII (WCF 1646).
Of the Sacraments.
I. Sacraments are holy signs and seals of the covenant of grace, immediately instituted by God, to represent Christ and his benefits, and to confirm our interest in him: as also to put a visible difference between those that belong unto the Church, and the rest of thw world; and solemnly to engage them to the service of God in Christ, according to his Word.
II. There is in every sacrament a spiritual relation, or sacramental union, between the sign and the thing signified; whence it comes to pass that the names and effects of the one are attributed to the other.
III. The grace which is exhibited in or by the sacraments, rightly used, is not conferred by any power in them; neither doth the efficacy of a sacrament depend upon the piety or intention of him that doth administer it, but upon the work of the Spirit, and the word of institution, which conatins, together with a precept authorizing the use thereof, a promise of benefit to worthy receivers.
IV. There be only two sacraments ordained by Christ our Lord in the gospels, that is to say, Baptism and the Supper of the Lord: neither or which may be dispensed by any but a minister of the Word, lawfully ordained.
V. The sacraments of the Old Testament, in regard of the spiritual things thereby signified and exhibited, were, for substance, the same with those of the New.
Flattery from the Dear Heart?
What a surprise!
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