Posted on 07/07/2008 10:39:05 PM PDT by Gamecock
A caller to our weekly radio program asked a question that has come up before: Are Roman Catholics saved? Let me respond to this as best I can. But I need to offer a qualifier because I think this is going to be somewhat dissatisfying for some because I am not going to say a simple "aye" or "nay." My answer is: It kind of depends. The reason I'm saying that is because of certain ambiguities.
My point is this, I think that in the area of the doctrine of salvation, Roman Catholic theology, as I understand it, is unbiblical because salvation depends on faith and works, not just faith alone. This was the specific problem Paul addressed in the book of Galatians and was the subject of the Jerusalem Council in Acts 15: Is simple faith in Jesus adequate, or must gentile followers of Christ now keep the Law as a standard of acceptance before God?
I know not all Catholics would agree that this is a fair way of putting it, but I think that most Catholics would actually say the faith/works equation is accurate. Your faith and your works are what save you. I was raised Catholic and that’s what I was taught. (For my take on the biblical relationship between faith and works, see “Faith & Works: Paul vs. James.”)
Now, I need to add this too. Many Protestants feel the same way. Many Protestants are confused on this issue, so this is not a Catholic vs. Protestant concern so much. It's just that Catholicism across the board has more of an official position that amounts this, where Protestants have a more diversity of views, some that don't even seem to be consistent with Protestantism.
But the fact that one believes Jesus is the Messiah and that He is the savior, not our own efforts, is critical. If you reject this notion, like the Jews do, then as far as I can tell from the biblical revelation, there is no hope for you. That seems to be clear. But when somebody says they believe in Jesus and He is their Savior, but somehow works are mingled in with the picture, then I can't really say to you how much faith that person is putting in Jesus and how much faith that person is putting in their own efforts to satisfy God. If a person has all their faith in their own efforts, then they are going to be judged by their own efforts. It's as simple as that. If they have their faith in Jesus, they will be judged by the merits of Jesus. Anyone judged by their own merits is going to be found wanting. Anyone who is judged by the merits of Jesus is not going to be found wanting because Jesus is not wanting.
What if you are kind of a mixture? I think most Catholics are, frankly. Many Protestants are, as well.
I reflect often on a comment that was made by a friend of mine named Dennis. He was a Roman Catholic brother in Christ that I knew when I was a brand new Christian. He asked me this: "Greg, how much faith does it take to be saved?" I said, "A mustard seed." And he said, "There you go."
And so, it seems to me, there are many Christians—Protestant and Catholic—who believe in Jesus as their savior and have a mustard seed of faith, but are confused about the role of works. I think that Jesus is still Savior in those cases.
Who’s “Petronski?”
Sorry, I certainly misread your post.
Very sorry.
I agree with you, now.
Some of us have been praying that otherwise might be true one way or another, sooner or later.
Sounds like some
chronic RC perceptions are
still in need of a desperate overhaul. A tune-up would no longer usffice.
Calling Alamo-Girl a phony
is about equal to calling Jesus Christ a phony.
He lives that fully within and through her.
However, this, too, is . . . revealing.
Thank you so much for your insights, dear brother in Christ.
:D
To answer your question, I have never felt anything but genuinely uplifted and heartwarmed by Alamo-Girl’s expressions of Christian love...
Interestingly, a moment ago, when I returned to the main forum, the top post was,
“Pope warns Catholic youth of ‘spiritual desert’”, which included the following:
In his final mass, the pope said the worshippers’ youthful energy helped reinvigorate the church and urged them to become “messengers of love” to counter a world that was increasingly spiritually barren.
Only you and Petronski can answer (to your own selves; we deserve no answer) what makes being “messengers of love” “creepy” to you.
Excellent perceptiveness and discernment.
Thanks.
When one's priorities are Biblically straight . . .
When one's focus is God and His priorities . . .
When one acts and discerns and speaks out of a good faith heart attitude focused on God . . .
One's discernment tends to find it easy noting the obvious.
When one's focus is markedly otherwise or the opposite, even the obvious can be quite hidden . . . must as truth was hidden fromt the pharisees.
Certainly. You are quite welcome.
I can see now why Alamo-Girl admires your wisdom and good taste and why others here fear your razor shape intellect. Which of the apostate New England excuses for states are you loathe to own?
p.s. I also hate the Boston Globe, Hartford Courant and have been wondering about the Union Leader after the death of the Loebs. If we keep this up, I will have to start confession just to make room for more subjects.
It appears that this thread has enough "vigah" (a la JFK) on its own to withstand highjacking by a bit of sidebar sharing... '-)
~~~~~~
My mother also was the last person my father recognized -- and she did "light up his life" right up to the very end.
I shared that experience of having my Dad fail to recognize me and saying, "My son is a little boy about this (waist) high"...
And, yes, I will be forever grateful that we did not inflict the reality of my mother's passing on my father's final months...
My dad was a brilliant man; I describe watching his decline as,
"Like watching the lights in a great city gradually wink out -- one by one..."
Alzheimers is, indeed, a cruel affliction. Thank you for sharing your experiences with its victims!
Alzheimers is, indeed, a cruel affliction
For sure. Was so with my mother.
BTW:
A MORE EXCELLENT WAY
by Henry Wright documents amazing success dealing with it The Lord’s way.
AMEN
Thank you, betty boop. She’s one of the most respected Christian posters on FR, blameless to a fault. I can’t understand this kind of ‘hatred’ shown to her because she loves. It boggles the mind.
I think you have it, out of the abundance of the heart.
I think you have it, out of the abundance of the heart.
SHE isn’t the one who is deceived.
What a way to live! I envy them.
You’re welcome, betty. I’m sure it will be a beautifully written, Spirit inspired book.
You said: SHE isn’t the one who is deceived.
All the adherents of the heresy of sola scriptura (which is the work of Satan..the father of deception) have been deceived. Not to say adherents of that heresy don’t love the Lord, but they most certainly have been deceived.
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