"Nah, what's up Doc?"
Posted on 07/07/2008 10:39:05 PM PDT by Gamecock
A caller to our weekly radio program asked a question that has come up before: Are Roman Catholics saved? Let me respond to this as best I can. But I need to offer a qualifier because I think this is going to be somewhat dissatisfying for some because I am not going to say a simple "aye" or "nay." My answer is: It kind of depends. The reason I'm saying that is because of certain ambiguities.
My point is this, I think that in the area of the doctrine of salvation, Roman Catholic theology, as I understand it, is unbiblical because salvation depends on faith and works, not just faith alone. This was the specific problem Paul addressed in the book of Galatians and was the subject of the Jerusalem Council in Acts 15: Is simple faith in Jesus adequate, or must gentile followers of Christ now keep the Law as a standard of acceptance before God?
I know not all Catholics would agree that this is a fair way of putting it, but I think that most Catholics would actually say the faith/works equation is accurate. Your faith and your works are what save you. I was raised Catholic and that’s what I was taught. (For my take on the biblical relationship between faith and works, see “Faith & Works: Paul vs. James.”)
Now, I need to add this too. Many Protestants feel the same way. Many Protestants are confused on this issue, so this is not a Catholic vs. Protestant concern so much. It's just that Catholicism across the board has more of an official position that amounts this, where Protestants have a more diversity of views, some that don't even seem to be consistent with Protestantism.
But the fact that one believes Jesus is the Messiah and that He is the savior, not our own efforts, is critical. If you reject this notion, like the Jews do, then as far as I can tell from the biblical revelation, there is no hope for you. That seems to be clear. But when somebody says they believe in Jesus and He is their Savior, but somehow works are mingled in with the picture, then I can't really say to you how much faith that person is putting in Jesus and how much faith that person is putting in their own efforts to satisfy God. If a person has all their faith in their own efforts, then they are going to be judged by their own efforts. It's as simple as that. If they have their faith in Jesus, they will be judged by the merits of Jesus. Anyone judged by their own merits is going to be found wanting. Anyone who is judged by the merits of Jesus is not going to be found wanting because Jesus is not wanting.
What if you are kind of a mixture? I think most Catholics are, frankly. Many Protestants are, as well.
I reflect often on a comment that was made by a friend of mine named Dennis. He was a Roman Catholic brother in Christ that I knew when I was a brand new Christian. He asked me this: "Greg, how much faith does it take to be saved?" I said, "A mustard seed." And he said, "There you go."
And so, it seems to me, there are many Christians—Protestant and Catholic—who believe in Jesus as their savior and have a mustard seed of faith, but are confused about the role of works. I think that Jesus is still Savior in those cases.
What nonsense. Alamo Girl has more love in her heart than any one on either side of these threads. It’s sad to see you can’t recognize it.
It doesn’t bother me.
I just wanted you to know that—or why—I wasn’t going to reply to every post along the way until you hit 1433.
And I give the protestants on these threads credit for continuing the battle against the lies of the Catholic church and those who don’t recognize Christian love when they see it. Have a nice day.
For sure.
You should try reading her posts with eyes looking for the truth, and not from a reflexive and defensive posture which apparently blinds you to the validity of her posts.
I challenge you to find even one of them that is an obvious "attack" on any church. Her posts are simply declarations of Scriptural truth.
TOTALLY TRUE.
Which is what makes the allegations all the more
ABSURD TO THE MAX.
folks
know enough
to stop digging.
And some obviously
do NOT.
CORRECTION
CTTM
CREEPY TO THE MAX bookmarker
to God be the glory!
WOW
A record high pile of stinking balderdash!
Congrats.
BTW, in the future,
you can address me as
Dr Quix
Really?
Could have fooled a lot of us.
So far, the book has been understood as intended for a limited, private readership.
Notwithstanding that, my sense — having read it — is: That could change. :^) (In fact, I suspect it will.)
The original expectation was for release before Christmas.
Thank you so much for asking, marysecretary!
"Nah, what's up Doc?"
But xzins makes for good company also, IMHO. Speaking as an RC, I find both of you "together" on most points of theology. And find nothing to complain about.
So I hold you both to be in good Grace, in the Spirit of the Lord. And am ever glad and grateful for your company!
Evidently another occasion for bitterness, resentment, unforgiveness, vengeance . . . on top of the parentally anchored tankers full.
Dearly Beloved . . . it is my . . . less than fun duty to inform all those with ears to hear and eyes to see . . .
One of our very beloved RC brethren has sent around to selected pastors and ministries a most profound prophetic document, including the 700 Club staff--which has reportedly received it well and are studying it.
The document is still largely embargoed and restricted to those our beloved RC brother feels led to share it with. It's not clear if or when it will have a larger audience.
I don't know that any Believer would be 100% clean and unscathed in reading the sobering doc. And, perhaps the author will correct me in FREEPMAIL or on the thread for the following.
However, my own sense before his doc and certainly afterwards is:
For example re Proverbs 17:13: "EVIL will not depart from the house of the one who returns evil for good."
And, he cites Titus 3.
Cutting to the chase from my perspective and sensing . . .
God is more than ever looking at the thoughts and intents of the heart in our era.
And, consequences for bad faith, bad heart attitudes toward God and man will begin to fall down around the necks of the perpetrators far sooner than has been routinely the case in past eras.
Those maintaining a death grip onto bitterness, unforgiveness, resentments, vengeance, anger . . . particularly toward brothers and sisters in Christ . . . will find themselves (and sadly often their families) reaping an abundance of such qualities with interest piled on, as well.
Blaming, rationalizing, self-righteous harumphing, dust in the air, whining, wailing, pointing the finger . . . all such will only intensify the disciplines of The Lord and the reaping from sowing such.
All attitudes similar to "Lord, I thank you that I'm not like that publican over there . . . " will entail a painful harvest.
Death-gripped and maintained stubbornness and/or rebellion coupled with bitterness, resentment, unforgiveness &/or vengeance will likely begin to incur multiple disciplines including serious health problems.
Just as God is not slack concerning His promises . . . He will not be mocked on the obedience INCREASINGLY demanded on the above issues. They are essentially the walking out of
LOVING GOD FIRST, FOREMOST AND ALWAYS IN ALL WAYS as well as our neighbors as ourselves.
There is a perverse mentality which sometimes barely consciously but plenty consciously kind of insists on it's own way. A death grip is maintained on bitterness, resentment, unforgiveness, stubbornness, self-righteousness, hatred, anger . . . though the person concerned knows full well all the Scriptures against such.
INSTEAD OF COMPLYING such an individual will typically redouble their
convincing themselves that all their tidy hoop jumping makes it all right with God and they can continue on their unmerry way with their death-grip on all the crud from hell.
. . . as God will be increasingly demonstrating in life after life of believers in all walks of life and "Christian" clubs, most assuredly including the RC edifice.
Out of the abundance of the heart,
the fingers waggle or point.
What nonsense. Alamo Girl has more love in her heart than any one on either side of these threads. It’s sad to see you can’t recognize it.
= = =
Keep in mind that most folks tend to see others as THE viewer is vs as the viewED is.
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