Posted on 07/07/2008 10:39:05 PM PDT by Gamecock
A caller to our weekly radio program asked a question that has come up before: Are Roman Catholics saved? Let me respond to this as best I can. But I need to offer a qualifier because I think this is going to be somewhat dissatisfying for some because I am not going to say a simple "aye" or "nay." My answer is: It kind of depends. The reason I'm saying that is because of certain ambiguities.
My point is this, I think that in the area of the doctrine of salvation, Roman Catholic theology, as I understand it, is unbiblical because salvation depends on faith and works, not just faith alone. This was the specific problem Paul addressed in the book of Galatians and was the subject of the Jerusalem Council in Acts 15: Is simple faith in Jesus adequate, or must gentile followers of Christ now keep the Law as a standard of acceptance before God?
I know not all Catholics would agree that this is a fair way of putting it, but I think that most Catholics would actually say the faith/works equation is accurate. Your faith and your works are what save you. I was raised Catholic and that’s what I was taught. (For my take on the biblical relationship between faith and works, see “Faith & Works: Paul vs. James.”)
Now, I need to add this too. Many Protestants feel the same way. Many Protestants are confused on this issue, so this is not a Catholic vs. Protestant concern so much. It's just that Catholicism across the board has more of an official position that amounts this, where Protestants have a more diversity of views, some that don't even seem to be consistent with Protestantism.
But the fact that one believes Jesus is the Messiah and that He is the savior, not our own efforts, is critical. If you reject this notion, like the Jews do, then as far as I can tell from the biblical revelation, there is no hope for you. That seems to be clear. But when somebody says they believe in Jesus and He is their Savior, but somehow works are mingled in with the picture, then I can't really say to you how much faith that person is putting in Jesus and how much faith that person is putting in their own efforts to satisfy God. If a person has all their faith in their own efforts, then they are going to be judged by their own efforts. It's as simple as that. If they have their faith in Jesus, they will be judged by the merits of Jesus. Anyone judged by their own merits is going to be found wanting. Anyone who is judged by the merits of Jesus is not going to be found wanting because Jesus is not wanting.
What if you are kind of a mixture? I think most Catholics are, frankly. Many Protestants are, as well.
I reflect often on a comment that was made by a friend of mine named Dennis. He was a Roman Catholic brother in Christ that I knew when I was a brand new Christian. He asked me this: "Greg, how much faith does it take to be saved?" I said, "A mustard seed." And he said, "There you go."
And so, it seems to me, there are many Christians—Protestant and Catholic—who believe in Jesus as their savior and have a mustard seed of faith, but are confused about the role of works. I think that Jesus is still Savior in those cases.
I do not.
Only those who believeth in him. Not everyone in the world WILL believe in Him. God knows who those people will be.
Congratulations, you agree with the Catholic Church.
What you left unstated is that those who do not believe in Him do so of their own free will, not because they were predestined to damnation.
As the adage goes, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
Isn’t it fascinating that those who can’t interpret the Bible for themselves, a clear indication that they are not being taught by the Teacher, and cannot claim that they will ultimately be in Paradise with the Lord, an indication that they don’t have the assurance of the Comforter, are somehow spiritually discerning enough to be able to determine the salvation of others.
The Lord had lots to say about such kind of judgements.
Quit being such a wimp.
Please tell us how you truly feel! LOL.
You are doing both.
You are doing both.
That is your paraphrasing, and it is wrong.
No. This is another example of your false paraphrasing.
John 20:20-23
Joh 20:20 And when he had said this, he shewed them his hands and his side. The disciples therefore were glad, when they saw the Lord.
Joh 20:21 He said therefore to them again: Peace be to you. As the Father hath sent me, I also send you.
Joh 20:22 When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost.
Joh 20:23 Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them: and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.
INDEED. More poison in the handle.
Have tried to remind myself . . . that the vile hate so often personally expressed toward some of us Prottys . . .
has to be worse toward the one in the mirror. A very sad probability.
The self-reported source of the hate, bitterness etc. is no matter . . . the matter to God is
WILL YOU FORGIVE AND BE FORGIVEN
OR
NOT.
It is a simple request which she refused to honor.
So now you renege on your promise to stop posting to me on my request.
I am not a "sweaty bald guy at the airport with a saffron robe and the patchouli stink trying to give" you "a posy and a hug for the love of Krishna."
I did not say you are.
And I stopped posting to you when you refused to honor one of my simple requests.
I repeat, you are an embarrassment to all Catholics on this forum.
If there is a creep on this forum, then you are it.
1 Samuel 15:23
For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.
I Sam 6:6
I'm not sure all Catholics on this forum consider you their spokesman.
Indeed. They don't seem to speak it.
In it's simplest terms, I understand salvation as "Believe in Christ, and do the work of repentance, and you will be saved."
Today's calvinist mantra of 'sins washed away with the blood of Christ' is justification for a slacker's faith.
Dr. Eckleburg's theology is always consistent with what the bible teaches. There are many many others who post here that give repeated evidences that they have no concept of the theology of the scriptures and prove it daily by their posted assertions and denials.
Fortunately for them, salvation is not of works, lest any boast.
God's justice is perfect. By His will, we create the scales whereby we will be judged.
Wait, your story is (a) you made a simple request, (b) I did not honor it, (c) you called me a creep.
I, on the other hand, (a) made a simple request, (b) she refused to honor it, (c) I called her a creep.
Notice anything there?
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