Posted on 07/07/2008 10:39:05 PM PDT by Gamecock
A caller to our weekly radio program asked a question that has come up before: Are Roman Catholics saved? Let me respond to this as best I can. But I need to offer a qualifier because I think this is going to be somewhat dissatisfying for some because I am not going to say a simple "aye" or "nay." My answer is: It kind of depends. The reason I'm saying that is because of certain ambiguities.
My point is this, I think that in the area of the doctrine of salvation, Roman Catholic theology, as I understand it, is unbiblical because salvation depends on faith and works, not just faith alone. This was the specific problem Paul addressed in the book of Galatians and was the subject of the Jerusalem Council in Acts 15: Is simple faith in Jesus adequate, or must gentile followers of Christ now keep the Law as a standard of acceptance before God?
I know not all Catholics would agree that this is a fair way of putting it, but I think that most Catholics would actually say the faith/works equation is accurate. Your faith and your works are what save you. I was raised Catholic and that’s what I was taught. (For my take on the biblical relationship between faith and works, see “Faith & Works: Paul vs. James.”)
Now, I need to add this too. Many Protestants feel the same way. Many Protestants are confused on this issue, so this is not a Catholic vs. Protestant concern so much. It's just that Catholicism across the board has more of an official position that amounts this, where Protestants have a more diversity of views, some that don't even seem to be consistent with Protestantism.
But the fact that one believes Jesus is the Messiah and that He is the savior, not our own efforts, is critical. If you reject this notion, like the Jews do, then as far as I can tell from the biblical revelation, there is no hope for you. That seems to be clear. But when somebody says they believe in Jesus and He is their Savior, but somehow works are mingled in with the picture, then I can't really say to you how much faith that person is putting in Jesus and how much faith that person is putting in their own efforts to satisfy God. If a person has all their faith in their own efforts, then they are going to be judged by their own efforts. It's as simple as that. If they have their faith in Jesus, they will be judged by the merits of Jesus. Anyone judged by their own merits is going to be found wanting. Anyone who is judged by the merits of Jesus is not going to be found wanting because Jesus is not wanting.
What if you are kind of a mixture? I think most Catholics are, frankly. Many Protestants are, as well.
I reflect often on a comment that was made by a friend of mine named Dennis. He was a Roman Catholic brother in Christ that I knew when I was a brand new Christian. He asked me this: "Greg, how much faith does it take to be saved?" I said, "A mustard seed." And he said, "There you go."
And so, it seems to me, there are many Christians—Protestant and Catholic—who believe in Jesus as their savior and have a mustard seed of faith, but are confused about the role of works. I think that Jesus is still Savior in those cases.
Leave Quix out of this.
That’s abundantly true to the max.
I think folks fail to appreciate what a very rare gem The Lord has turned her into . . . not that the polishing is complete for any of us.
I’ve looked closely at believers far and wide on 3 continents . . . their statements, their walk, their character . . . . . . their Biblical breadth and depth . . . their lack of bias showing instead Christ’s “biases” . . .
particularly for that super rarity—an uncommon bent to believe and practice Scripture as Scripture plainly asserts it is to be believed practiced—letting the chips fall where they may and not carring a whit about what others think.
She passes that assessment with extreme flying colors. It’s difficult for me to think of anyone else in my 61 years passing as well.
I really enjoy seeing her pontifications and her humor.
And folks railing at her statements is rather like a gnat trying to get an elephant’s attention by trying to bite through it’s toenail. Quite amusing, really.
Often, it just seems like too many folks who seem to consider themselves so erudite and informed hereon . . . just miss her point or the weight of her point more or less entirely. That’s very amusing and then sad.
All the more so because she’s the opposite of my wordiness . . . and in clear plain English, most of the time.
Praise God for His faithfulness in and through her. She’s an edifying treasure for all with ears to hear and eyes to see.
MAYBE we need a POT/KETTLE trophy to be awarded daily or weekly or monthly.
Now now.
We have to be compassionate toward those
. . . brazen power-mongering committees so politically driven to mangle Scripture all out of recognizable form . . . to fit it into or drop it out of their rubber Bibles.
/sar
If the snot nosed brat would consent to being called a snot nosed brat, at least we’d have increased the candor and reality testing accuracy considerably. There’s much to be said for such improvements in communciative accuracy! LOL.
hypothetically, of course.
Naw.
Mary has my permission to include me whenever she thinks it’s apt.
Her reality testing, however, is light years better and beyond that of the more rabid RC’s hereon.
. . . . on opposite extremes, really.
For the record, I pull all Freepmails posted on thread in the Religion Forum automatically. The presumption is that if a poster wanted to say it publicly, he would have.
Great idea. Want to set one up???
She calls me “Li’l Mare” and I call her “Li’l Clare.” She is the happiest and most content person I know. She’s been crippled up with arthritis for years but she sure does love the Lord and she never complains. Ah, I wish I could be more like her.
LOL. I hear you...
SOUNDS RATHER WISE AND CHRISTIAN, to me.
Thanks.
Not really. I have enough irons in the fire!
But you could well give it a shot according to your own wise sensibilities!
That it would, Reggie, that it would. :)
If you say so....
I know the staff does the best it can, with little pay and lots of work. I don’t blame them at all. And I do know that a patient being able to pay does make a difference. We loved our music ministry to these homes and wish we could do it again but that will probably not happen. The Adult homes are the worst. Love, M
Due to the sensitive nature of the subject matter, the Religion Forum requires tougher guidelines in some areas - like use of potty language, making it personal, keeping personal messages personal, etc.
I have actually never been in an adult home, for any reason...so I cannot comment on them, in my area, but I have to say, we sure have a lot of them....and lots of nursing homes, as well...
I like the nursing homes, because you have a very wide variety of ages, and problems, to deal with...I have taken care of youngsters as young as 16, with severe disabilities, clear up to my favorite 105 year old lady....I have to say, my favorite residents were always the ones on the Alzheimers wing...perhaps because my own mother had Alzheimers, is why the Alzheimers residents are so special to me...
That is too bad about your music ministry...the residents love it when anyone comes in, and plays music for them...it is a blessing for those who do the musical playing as well...everyone benefits...
I'm not paraphrasing anything, I'm quoting directly from it. If a section that I quote from word for word is wrong, then just tell me so I'll know. :)
FK: This section also teaches that Christ did not die for all of our sins.
Simply false. You did not even follow the metaphor properly:
I explained that according to the Catechism Christ could not have died and paid for all sins fully. I'm looking to find out why that's wrong, if it is.
FK: One sin, one payment.
Many sins over and over and over, many reconciliations, the same one payment.
Ah, so in Catholicism, "payment" does not really mean payment. Instead "payment" really means "payment + reconciliation to be carried out by man"? If that is so, then at least we can agree that in the English language, Christ did not pay for anyone's sins in full according to Catholicism. In every other use of the word, full payment means full satisfaction of debt. You all appear to just have a completely unique and unknown-to-the-rest-of-the-world use of the term. I think we're getting warmer here. :)
And let's look at that absolution: God, the Father of mercies, through the death and the resurrection of his Son has reconciled the world to himself and sent the Holy Spirit among us for the forgiveness of sins; through the ministry of the Church may God give you pardon and peace, and I absolve you from your sins in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.48
This is internally inconsistent. If the Holy Spirit was sent for the forgiveness of sins, then it would be the Spirit absolving, not the priest. That's not a power that can be delegated away. If I ran over a priest's cat, then he could forgive me for that, but a priest has no business forgiving me for sins against God, unless the priest IS God.
My husband’s aunt has been in an assistant living home for about a month now and my MIL who is getting frailer by the day actually said that she might like to live there. I was shocked!
In reality, she spends the bulk of her time either alone or visiting the nursing homes and assisted living homes and the homebound to see her old friends. We try to make as much time as possible for her and my husband and son make sure all the honey-does are done but she still spends too much time alone in a home on the side of the mountain 2.5 miles from her nearest neighbor. She normally has at least one rattlesnake a week on her porch and she’s still able to use a gun but she may not see one some day. We worry about her alot.
I just assumed she’d probably end up living with my husband and I because both of her daughters are frailer than she is from chemotherapy. I don’t know, we’ll see, she has been saying things for the first time ever, that she is ready for a change.
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