Posted on 07/07/2008 10:39:05 PM PDT by Gamecock
If people can’t see the changes in our lives, how can we lead them to Christ? When we live by faith, it shows! People are always watching Christians, how they live, how they behave and react in certain situations, especially in trials and tribulations. If you live your life the way you always did, then I have to wonder if you were truly born again.
Reading the mind of another Freeper is a form of "making it personal."
"Those who are in the stream of providence are at all times carried along toward everything that is happy, regardless of the appearance of the means.” (AC 8478)
I find myself agreeing with my Catholic brethren more often than not in terms of fundamental beliefs. The means may vary (doctrine and dogma) but the results are the same. Your posts would seem to indicate the same.
I agree on the basic precepts about Christ. It’s when extra-biblical stuff gets tossed into the mix that I disagree with them. M
We’re talking here about people who are truly saved. Some who claim to be may not be, if their lives don’t reflect Christ. If they go about their same old ways, drinking, cussing, smoking, chasing women (lol), then you have to wonder if what they experienced is real.
That obviously IS a very flawed theology. Thank God no one around here preaches it. :) It sounds like you have a long, long way to go before understanding even the basic precepts of Protestantism and especially Reformed theology. As Gamecock aptly said, we are NOT infused of grace, we are IMPUTED with Christ's righteousness. Huge difference.
Further, your second assertion also violates our beliefs. Reformed theology is often summarized by the acronym "TULIP" (Total Depravity, Unconditional election, Limited atonement, Irresistible Grace, Perseverance of the Saints). Perseverance of the Saints ("P") means that we WILL do good works, pleasing to God, after we are saved. We recognize that any idea that "it does not matter at all what one does afterward, how many or what kind of sins he commits, that he is still saved" is wholly unchristian. We know that because we are Bible-believing Christians and we know that Paul, for one, blows this idea completely out of the water. :
Heb 10:26-27 : 26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.
Rom 6:1-18 : 6:1 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3 Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.
5 If we have been united with him like this in his death, we will certainly also be united with him in his resurrection. 6 For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin— 7 because anyone who has died has been freed from sin.
8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. 9 For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him. 10 The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God.
11 In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. 12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. 13 Do not offer the parts of your body to sin, as instruments of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God, as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer the parts of your body to him as instruments of righteousness. 14 For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace.
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! 16 Don't you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey — whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness? 17 But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you wholeheartedly obeyed the form of teaching to which you were entrusted. 18 You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.
As unbelievers, we were slaves to sin, but now as believers we are slaves to righteousness. I hope you will believe me that mainline Protestantism and indeed the Reformed teach NONE of what you are talking about above. :)
Well, I know Catholics believe that baptism is salvific, but born again protestants believe that the Bible tells us to ‘believe and be baptized.’ It’s important to be baptized and I was as an infant and again as a believer. Once a person believes and is saved, then you have to work out those things in your life that hinder your walk with the Lord. The important thing is to have Christ in your life through the Holy Spirit to guide and direct you in that walk.
It’s not an ‘out.’ It’s sort of an outward sign of an inward journey. If you live the way you always did, how would anyone know you are a Christian?
*** In the end, if one does not believe in OSAS, it negates the whole idea of a salvation moment in time, which I have to say has never impressed me. I’ve witnessed altar calls, and read an online form to fill out to say one has officially been saved, and I don’t believe in them.***
All of which goes against Reformation Theology. You are painting with a very broad brush.
So, you'll cherry-pick the easiest route possible to Salvation? The Lord responded to the question of eternal life with the commandments in Matt 19:16, Mark 10:17, and Luke 18:18.
I'm sorry, I don't know what your first statement has to do with what I said. ALL of the passages you quote have to do with a man who loved his riches. Jesus responded exactly as He does to any false questioner. Do you really believe that Jesus was giving straightforward information that Jesus thought could be followed by the people He was talking to??? I really hope not, for if that is the formula you follow for salvation then you are like those men (man). Do you think the way to salvation is to follow the laundry list of deeds that Jesus lays out in these passages? Was that the point to you?
Sorry, the Good Samaritan story is a vital part of the Word. It's the narrow path.
No problem, I LOVE the Good Samaritan story. :) And indeed the path is narrow. That's one way we KNOW that God did not predestine all people to be saved, and indeed that God did not WANT all people to be saved (if He is really omnipotent).
Galatians 3
O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you. It was before your eyes that Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified. Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?
That very verse should crush the entire New Perspectives on Paul movement.
But alas, by nature man is Pelagian.
Galatians 3
O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? It was before your eyes that Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified. Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith? 3Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?
powerful few verses speaking directly to the problem. They’ll come up with some ‘tradition’ to explain it away.
I agree. :-)
Well I simply do not believe you. Worry about yourself. Leave us alone. Thanks. I am NOT lost. Your are appointing yourselves to a role. We are not stupid.
No. Observance of the laws of Leviticus is not necessary for salvation.
Of course it does. Reformation Theology is defective.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.