Posted on 07/07/2008 10:39:05 PM PDT by Gamecock
A caller to our weekly radio program asked a question that has come up before: Are Roman Catholics saved? Let me respond to this as best I can. But I need to offer a qualifier because I think this is going to be somewhat dissatisfying for some because I am not going to say a simple "aye" or "nay." My answer is: It kind of depends. The reason I'm saying that is because of certain ambiguities.
My point is this, I think that in the area of the doctrine of salvation, Roman Catholic theology, as I understand it, is unbiblical because salvation depends on faith and works, not just faith alone. This was the specific problem Paul addressed in the book of Galatians and was the subject of the Jerusalem Council in Acts 15: Is simple faith in Jesus adequate, or must gentile followers of Christ now keep the Law as a standard of acceptance before God?
I know not all Catholics would agree that this is a fair way of putting it, but I think that most Catholics would actually say the faith/works equation is accurate. Your faith and your works are what save you. I was raised Catholic and that’s what I was taught. (For my take on the biblical relationship between faith and works, see “Faith & Works: Paul vs. James.”)
Now, I need to add this too. Many Protestants feel the same way. Many Protestants are confused on this issue, so this is not a Catholic vs. Protestant concern so much. It's just that Catholicism across the board has more of an official position that amounts this, where Protestants have a more diversity of views, some that don't even seem to be consistent with Protestantism.
But the fact that one believes Jesus is the Messiah and that He is the savior, not our own efforts, is critical. If you reject this notion, like the Jews do, then as far as I can tell from the biblical revelation, there is no hope for you. That seems to be clear. But when somebody says they believe in Jesus and He is their Savior, but somehow works are mingled in with the picture, then I can't really say to you how much faith that person is putting in Jesus and how much faith that person is putting in their own efforts to satisfy God. If a person has all their faith in their own efforts, then they are going to be judged by their own efforts. It's as simple as that. If they have their faith in Jesus, they will be judged by the merits of Jesus. Anyone judged by their own merits is going to be found wanting. Anyone who is judged by the merits of Jesus is not going to be found wanting because Jesus is not wanting.
What if you are kind of a mixture? I think most Catholics are, frankly. Many Protestants are, as well.
I reflect often on a comment that was made by a friend of mine named Dennis. He was a Roman Catholic brother in Christ that I knew when I was a brand new Christian. He asked me this: "Greg, how much faith does it take to be saved?" I said, "A mustard seed." And he said, "There you go."
And so, it seems to me, there are many Christians—Protestant and Catholic—who believe in Jesus as their savior and have a mustard seed of faith, but are confused about the role of works. I think that Jesus is still Savior in those cases.
None of the Prottys hereon
engage in lies about the RC edifice at all.
Often, the truth hurts.
We have learned as well, to expect the pig hit with the rock to squeal.
You are free to interpret it any way you wish.
You might ask MarkBsnr how he could so confidently claim that "we" (all Catholics on this forum?) do or don't do anything.
A very powerful tool in a non reformed world to keep people, princes, and kings in line.
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It must be love!
Laughably false....inherently self-contradictory even.
Now, now.
Rubber dictionaries are essential for some edifices.
There’s a rumor that they are great shock absorbers
when quakes of truth rumble through the land.
Some are just not lucky enough to be born saved. That would be a great and easy way out of all of the sinning one does as a Christian and the lack of repentance for such sins.
Irresistible Grace...…whether you want it or not it’s yours. Sounds like an Elmer Gantryism lol. How did Gantry put it? A hahahahahahaha
To my knowledge what Mark said is true.
Some folks don’t deserve some terms.
Nevertheless, some transmitters are so inherently focused on loving all the humans God created—it’s their Godly bent to continue transmitting as God has blessed and directed their inherent person to be in the world.
Of course, one can return evil for good.
It’s not the Biblically recommended thing to do.
Dr. E.
I’m increasingly of the perspective that money most typically buys arrogance . . . and reinforces control freakism. Has that been your observation?
Amen.
And mercifully, one of the by-products of preaching the Gospel is that the will of God becomes even more clear in our own lives. We're commanded to preach the Gospel in order for God's children to hear and know the truth; but the preaching of the word also strengthens us with every example we offer.
Even the challenges to His word are beneficial to us because they compel us to "search the Scriptures to see if these things be so."
He is near that justifieth me; who will contend with me? let us stand together: who is mine adversary? let him come near to me." -- Isaiah 50:7-8"For the Lord GOD will help me; therefore shall I not be confounded: therefore have I set my face like a flint, and I know that I shall not be ashamed.
I consider it unfitting to ask another Believer to avoid being as God has led, directed, blessed, created them to be in the world.
I see my annoyances with any aspect of such as my problem.
I’m not about to ask a saint like A-G to stop being the way God has taught, healed, trained and blessed her to be in the world just to
assuage my carnal annoyance.
What a farce that would be.
On FR?
One doesn’t do the impossible, normally.
Lots of feelings are eager for offense and stuck out in the freeway several lanes worth daring the truckers to run over the sensitive pinky toes.
I guess I'll file this one under "stuff you can't make up".
lol. You cannot substantiate your assessment from Scripture. In fact, from the verses given, Scripture rebukes you.
"He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them." -- John 12:40
“I guess I’ll file this one under “stuff you can’t make up”.”
I swear some of these Calvinists have dual personalities - talking one thing and then 3 posts later the opposite. I guess that mentality is ripe for the religion of a Calvinist.
I see that you are again pulling Scripture out of context to use it for your own purposes.
Joh 12:34 The multitude answered him: We have heard out of the law that Christ abideth for ever. And how sayest thou: The Son of man must be lifted up? Who is this Son of man?You bear false witness against me with staggering ease.
Joh 12:35 Jesus therefore said to them: Yet a little while, the light is among you. Walk whilst you have the light, and the darkness overtake you not. And he that walketh in darkness knoweth not whither be goeth.
Joh 12:36 Whilst you have the light, believe in the light, that you may be the children of light. These things Jesus spoke: and he went away and hid himself from them.
Joh 12:37 And whereas he had done so many miracles before them, they believed not in him:
Joh 12:38 That the saying of Isaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he said: Lord, who hath believed our hearing? And to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?
Joh 12:39 Therefore they could not believe, because Isaias said again:
Joh 12:40 He hath blinded their eyes and hardened their heart, that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart and be converted: and I should heal them.
I rebuke false, patronizing sentimentality.
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I don't know what the explanation is, but I expect it is somewhat incomprehensible. At least, I hope so.
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