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To: fortheDeclaration

***It seems that Roman Catholics get upset if you ask them if they are saved, even though Paul describes himself as such in 1Cor.1:18 and John states we ought to know we have eternal life (1Jn.5:13)***

Paul does not say that he is saved, but rather being saved in 1 Cor 1:18
The message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

Being saved; in the process of being saved. Not a touch of the magic wand and hey presto. The journey, the Way, not the instant.

Paul describes himself as uncertain but in hope of salvation. 1 Cor 4:
I am not conscious of anything against me, but I do not thereby stand acquitted; the one who judges me is the Lord.
5
Therefore, do not make any judgment before the appointed time, until the Lord comes, for he will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will manifest the motives of our hearts, and then everyone will receive praise from God.

Paul hopes that he will be acquitted by the Lord, but the Lord is the Judge, not him or anyone else.

Paul also states plainly that it is possible for him to lose his salvation. 1 Cor 9:
24
8 Do you not know that the runners in the stadium all run in the race, but only one wins the prize? Run so as to win.
25
Every athlete exercises discipline in every way. They do it to win a perishable crown, but we an imperishable one.
26
Thus I do not run aimlessly; I do not fight as if I were shadowboxing.
27
No, I drive my body and train it, for fear that, after having preached to others, I myself should be disqualified.

How many people now claim that they KNOW what Paul did not? How many people are self-deceived? Matt 7:

21
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, 10 but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven.
22
Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name? Did we not drive out demons in your name? Did we not do mighty deeds in your name?’
23
Then I will declare to them solemnly, ‘I never knew you. 11 Depart from me, you evildoers.’

1John13:
I write these things to you so that you may know that you have eternal life, you who believe in the name of the Son of God.

So that you may (might) know - not that you will know.

This Catholic understands that the Bible says; I am already saved (Rom. 8:24, Eph. 2:5–8), but I’m also being saved (1 Cor. 1:8, 2 Cor. 2:15, Phil. 2:12), and I have the hope that I will be saved (Rom. 5:9–10, 1 Cor. 3:12–15). Like the apostle Paul I am working out my salvation in fear and trembling (Phil. 2:12), with hopeful confidence in the promises of Christ (Rom. 5:2, 2 Tim. 2:11–13).


5,154 posted on 06/12/2008 12:34:23 PM PDT by MarkBsnr ( I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: MarkBsnr

Thank you, Mark

All these Scriptural quotes are so fitting, so straightforward and so understandable. Thanks for putting them together and helping us to see.


5,156 posted on 06/12/2008 1:02:32 PM PDT by Running On Empty ((The three sorriest words:"It's too late"))
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To: MarkBsnr
This Catholic understands that the Bible says; I am already saved (Rom. 8:24, Eph. 2:5–8), but I’m also being saved (1 Cor. 1:8, 2 Cor. 2:15, Phil. 2:12), and I have the hope that I will be saved (Rom. 5:9–10, 1 Cor. 3:12–15). Like the apostle Paul I am working out my salvation in fear and trembling (Phil. 2:12), with hopeful confidence in the promises of Christ (Rom. 5:2, 2 Tim. 2:11–13).

Paul was not speaking of a persons eternal salvation in Phil.2:12, but his spiritual growth.

The Christian is commanded to 'work out' his faith, that is grow in faith and so that it can be seen by men (Ja.2).

We should do so with fear and trembling, for there is a Judgement Seat in which the Christian will be judged for his works on earth (1Cor.3:13, 2Cor.5:10-11)

The Lord spoke of having the light that is in us shine forth that men might see your good works and glorify your Father which is heaven (Matthew 5:15).

Our salvation is in us in the Persons of the Holy Trinity (Jn.17, 2Cor.6:16), the believer is sealed unto the day of Redemption (Eph.4:30) and Predestined to be conformed to the image of the Son (Rom.8:29) and nothing can separate us from the love of the Father (Rom.8:38-39)

Salvation is an event, not a process.

Sanctification is a process, but one grows because one IS saved, not TO BE saved or to STAY saved

If you are placing your confidence in anything other than the shed Blood of Christ for your eternal salvation, you have nullified grace and are not saved, since you are saved by grace and not works, else grace is no longer grace. (Rom.4)

5,281 posted on 06/12/2008 11:09:47 PM PDT by fortheDeclaration (Sola Scriptura, Sola Fide, Sola Gratia, Sola Christus)
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