Seriously though. What I was TRYING to say was if someone thinks sincerely that the Church is the Whore of Babylon and says so, I don't feel attacked. If someone keeps on saying it, every time I try to present an alternative view -- and I mean Keeps on saying it rather than saying, Okay here's why I think so and here's why I think your view can't stand -- THEN I feel attacked.
Quix, evidently you feel attacked here. Okay. Mutatis mutandis, the first time we get "rubber dictionary" that's a point worth looking at, even though to the best of my recollection you just type it and don't say what in particular about the post to which you are responding is "rubber". The tenth time you say rubber dictionary without a thoughtful and mutual respectful conversation's even being possible I just quit reaading.
And in general, if the matter under discussion is posed in such a way that the rhetoric is "Zero sum", I think the tension goes up.
Even you, AG, often say something about "human institutions" or something like that. You must know that we don't think that term applies to the Catholic Church. The umpty-umpth use of the phrase begins to convey the impression not of "We differ on this question," but rather, "It's a human institution, and I don't care what you guys think, and that's that."
I do often say that I eschew all of the doctrines and traditions of men across the board. And I usually follow it up to be clear that includes the Pope, Billy Graham, Joseph Smith, Calvin, etc. And sometimes I also clarify that does not include the Apostles and other scribes of Scriptures which I know are the words of God because the indwelling Spirit Himself brings the Scriptures alive within me, authenticating them as His own.
He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with [their] lips, but their heart is far from me.
Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of men.
For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, [as] the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do. And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death: But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, [It is] Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; [he shall be free]. And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother; Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye. – Mark 7:5-13
That is my own personal epistemology.
To God be the glory!
The tenth time you say rubber dictionary without a thoughtful and mutual respectful conversation’s even being possible I just quit reaading.
= = =
I wouldn’t want to label that an unreasonable resposne. Perfectly understandable, to me. No sweat, no biggy.
However, your post seems to ignore the similar perspective many Prottys have to the chronic relentless insistence that
IT AND IT ALONE can legitimately use the word catholic and
IT AND IT ALONE can legitimately be construed to be the only authentically Christian UNIVERSAL CHRISTIAN CHURCH.
The relentlessness of such assertions are as troublesome, annoying, . . . at some point, in some ways as outrageous and infuriating as anything Prottys are dogged about.
Other RC examples of dogged relentlessness could be cited—I think a lot more than on the Protty side.
It would appear that here we have YET ANOTHER
IT’S SO HORRIFIC WHEN THE PROTTYS DO THUS AND SO
and utter denial that RC’s do essentially, if not exactly the same thing and often worse.
That’s more than a little underwhelming in terms of contributing to meaningful mutually respectful dialogue from the perspective that seems to be proffered above.
To some of us a long list of Marian stuff is hyper, hyper, hyper-blasphemous hyperbole making my hyperbole look weak and anemically muffled by comparison.
Yet, Prottys are expected to swallow it hook line and sinker 100-’s of times a day hereon and to smile cheerfully and claim that the spiritual/intellectual . . . forced intercourse is wonderful.
Some of us are not remotely inclined to take that perspectvie. It’s wholesale, to us, unreasonable, unconsciencable, UNBiblical, preposterous, outrageous etc.
Alas, only RC’s are allowed to be outraged. When Prottys are outraged, they are unreasonable, off the wall, mentally insane, evil, etc. etc. etc.
We just don’t buy into such a stacked deck/double standard. Not by a long shot.
Y’all scream about us imputing internal feelings and intents that aren’t there.
Yet, Y’all persistently impute to us hatred etc. that we don’t feel nor think, at all.
DOUBLE STANDARDS STINK regardless of who wallows in them.
“It’s a human institution, and I don’t care what you guys think, and that’s that.”
Y’all say similar things about Luther; the “missing” books of the Bible; Sola Scriptura and a list of other Protty distinctives dozens to 100’s of times a day. I guess it’s quite righteous when RC’s do it and quite evil when Prottys do it?
Not in our book.
Some of us don’t understand how RC’s have such a seemingly compulsively easy time demonstrating AN OUTRAGEOUS DOUBLE STANDARD and live in wholesale blind denial that such is ever the case.