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To: hosepipe
Thank you so very much for sharing your insights, dear brother in Christ!

Where I live TOTEMS are used exactly as "icons" are used in places where icons are reverenced.. The totems stand for other things as reminders.. The arguments are the same to support them.. Weak arguments.. Little wonder God warned against them..

This brings to mind the incident with the golden calf. Aaron announced that they would feast to the LORD in front of the golden calf.

And when the people saw that Moses delayed to come down out of the mount, the people gathered themselves together unto Aaron, and said unto him, Up, make us gods, which shall go before us; for [as for] this Moses, the man that brought us up out of the land of Egypt, we wot not what is become of him.

And Aaron said unto them, Break off the golden earrings, which [are] in the ears of your wives, of your sons, and of your daughters, and bring [them] unto me. And all the people brake off the golden earrings which [were] in their ears, and brought [them] unto Aaron. And he received [them] at their hand, and fashioned it with a graving tool, after he had made it a molten calf: and they said, These [be] thy gods, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.

And when Aaron saw [it], he built an altar before it; and Aaron made proclamation, and said, To morrow [is] a feast to the LORD. - Exodus 32:1-5

Evidently the totem, the calf, was no big deal to Aaron and the other Israelites. And evidently they believed they could worship God and give homage to the totem at the same time. But they could not have their cake and eat it, too.

And God spake all these words, saying, I [am] the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness [of any thing] that [is] in heaven above, or that [is] in the earth beneath, or that [is] in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God [am] a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth [generation] of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. - Exodus 20:1-6

Maranatha, Jesus!!!

209 posted on 05/30/2008 11:35:01 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl

So what do you make of Naaman the Syrian?


210 posted on 05/30/2008 11:42:00 PM PDT by papertyger
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To: Alamo-Girl; betty boop; All
Exactly.. the golden calf was indeed a totem.. as surely as the native Americans around me as my neighbors reference their totems.. And most of them, are some kind of christian..

I don't think they bow down to them physically but mentally some do.. For sure the stories of the various "icons" on the totem are referenced.. The stories of the wolf, whale, orca, seal, polar bear, brown bear, grizzly, sea otter, raven etc.. that are the "icons" are rich with meaning and lessons.... pretty much like a Bible.. Their culture is all wound up and depends on them(the stories and icons)..

In some or in many cases the stories get all mixed up or overridden.. You cannot serve "two masters", comes to mind.. Jesus' metaphors are one thing, and the metaphors of the icons are another.. corrupting each or BOTH.. Every culture has metaphorical icons, I believe.. Adapting them to bibical truth is chancy at best and corrupting at worse.. Jesus' metaphors have distinct and unique meanings that shouldn't be messed with, I think.. As the golden calf attests to.. There is MUCH AT STAKE.. producing extra bibical metaphors is frought with caution I suspect.. Even Jesus' metaphors should be handled gingerly... Else the message(s) can be missed harming the spiritual student..

Handling/considering/dealing with "icons" has ten foot pole marks all over them.. Many in my expierence convert/morph the icons from stories to reality on several levels.. Using the Bible itself as an icon produces the same result, probably.. The harm is not in the stories(theology) but in masking of Jesus' message(s).. Not a problem IF your God is just a mental construct anyway.. making God himself an icon.. to the icon handler..

233 posted on 05/31/2008 5:20:02 AM PDT by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole....)
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